Gun powder and more

Back when I first started I used to casually find loaded shot gun shell bullets plenty of times
I was a good little citizen and turn them into the police . Some of the police that see me curb hunt
know i'm the one that turns in bullets . Once I turned in sheriff issued items that they kept for that reason

Well a recent find is some 22 caliber copper - 2 small cans of gun powder & 8 packages of winchester shot gun cartridges starters
so I started to wonder the police or hoard away as if it were silver . The SHTF scenario the value is clear
even though I feel SHTF is a long shot but who knows any more with what is going on in the world.

I also found a 22 rifle that loads 1 at a time but it needs a stock other wise it looks functional . Just for the record guns laws in PA
are easy going . Pistols are legal along with a No Flee from property law .Lots of hunters Guns a plenty.

Sell the stuff,

picture of the rifle if you can, if not make and model (should be on barrel)... some of those old single shot .22 go for a good bit of money.

I had a big baggie (gallon sized) about half full of .38 - .357 - 45 - empty cartridges and one box of reloaded .45's and a reloader friend of mine gave me 50 bucks for it. Check with the reloaders. And the rifle, check online for a pattern for a new stock, scrounge some nice wood and make you a new stock for it. I used to love going "plunking" with a .22 out thru the woods.

I've had mixed results with "found" firearms. It' just a piece of machinery. If you find one it's more likely that it's worn out or isn't working right.

Had a .22 single shot that i restored but the sights were off. When i went to adjust them the front site broke off.

There was a 12 ga. pump but it needed a few repair parts. The gun was so old that you couldn't get parts for it anymore.

There was a 28 Ga. single shot that worked allright but it was such an oddball gauge that it was hard to find ammo for.

It was definitely worth the attempt in all three cases if only for the experience. The 12 ga. i eventually destroyed. The other two got donated to a charitable fundraiser.

The thing about a firearm is that it's got to work flawlessly. The only thing worse than finding yourself unarmed in a " situation " is having a gun that failed to work when you really needed it. Old ammo ...old powder ... old primers ? Would you stake your life on em' ? Even worse .... in a SHTF scenario ?

Just something a cop taught me awhile back. Figured i'd pass it along.

bulletts and brass are as good as money in the bank ....in my area they sell really well......there is a site called gun broker,,,i have 2 friends who use it daily.....ive not tried it yet but i plan to in the future....the way i understand it is basicaly ebay for guns and gun related stuff.....i also understand that you do not need any liscenses to sell bullets or powder on there...as long as you are not selling the receiver part of a gun,,you can use it just like ebay with no extra paper required.......

i am not positive about that ,,it is just what i was told ,,so one would need to research it further

SO has a newer .22 single shot (interchangeable barrel)...sweet shooting little rifle.

Just finding the ammo to shoot the thing with anymore is the hard part....22 shells fly off the shelf 15 minutes after they come in around here.

What's driving the shortage of 22 ammo? Its not like its a military caliber or something....

Jon.

The thought to turn in dumpster diving found ammo to the cops never would have crossed my mind...

What's causing the run on .22 ammo?? Lots of theories and probably pieces and parts of them all. What I say here is all hearsay so take it with some salt but here we go 1) lead is tough to get a hold of nowadays as the EPA has closed down the last American lead smelter until they refit to new emissions and handling standards (this is what I've heard). 2) The current administration has made importing either raw foreign made lead and/or foreign manufactured ammo tougher to do--I've heard stuff sitting in containers at ports for months on end, 3) people are just plain hording the stuff either for SHTF type of situation or to sell it high than retail at some point. Probably others things involved as well. I've heard CCI is running 24/7 making .22 ammo

But all I know is when I stop every few weeks at the nearest Wally World there's no .22 LR on the shelves...

OK, here's another theory I forgot about. Supposedly the feds had some massive ammo buy (like hundreds of millions of .40 S&W rounds) that manufacturers had (have) a hard time getting any left over lead. So, a number of these theories have a lead shortage theme. But if these are true and CCI is running around the clock cranking out .22s, that doesn't seem to jive together if they can find lead. Personally, I think there are a number of factors including massive amounts of individual hording. Lots of Americans don't think the future is that bright...

Sounds like once a month to just buy some .22 would be as good a investment as silver .

I think the USA is so massive in size and many Americans are armed
ISIS and the like ( our most recent threat ) can cause problems
but can't really take all citizens on

There are forums with thousands of guys and girls who love to buy .22 rifles. even if it is just a parts gun you might have one that's hard to get parts for. there are also many gun parts sites that will buy junkers (if it is) Numrich comes to mind.
gun broker gives you more people like ebay, but forums and private sales will net "you" more profit but it is a good site I have bought and sold over there.
whatever you decide to do a little research into the rifle before you decide. fix it up, sell it whole, part it out... choices are good.
Mechs advise is great. find a re-loader they will pay well above scrap for powder, primers, bullets, casings ext

.22 is on a high point. not a good time to buy as an investment IMO

American Hunters are the largest armed force in the world. now add all the other Americans that own guns Army, police, civilians.
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy

The rifle is a kids size , it's a odd design . First you need pull back the trigger lever ,
then the hammer I figure it's called But the hammer has a hole on the side
that you need some kind or pin tool to pull back and shut to allow the loading of the one round.
pull trigger and lever smacks into that hammer with hole on side
Trigger spring seems strong but rusty .

That sounds like it may be what's called a rolling block. If it is it's pretty old. On those, the block (front piece that goes right behind the cartridge) has a firing pin and spring inside. When struck, the pin can move forward and strike the primer.

I have a couple of these including one youth model. One of mine is a Stevens Favorite and the other is a Remington. If you can find the make and model, you probably have a good chance at getting a stock for it.

I could be wrong though and don't profess to be an expert. There are so many different actions made that its crazy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DakotaRog

The thought to turn in dumpster diving found ammo to the cops never would have crossed my mind...

What's causing the run on .22 ammo?? Lots of theories and probably pieces and parts of them all. What I say here is all hearsay so take it with some salt but here we go 1) lead is tough to get a hold of nowadays as the EPA has closed down the last American lead smelter until they refit to new emissions and handling standards (this is what I've heard). 2) The current administration has made importing either raw foreign made lead and/or foreign manufactured ammo tougher to do--I've heard stuff sitting in containers at ports for months on end, 3) people are just plain hording the stuff either for SHTF type of situation or to sell it high than retail at some point. Probably others things involved as well. I've heard CCI is running 24/7 making .22 ammo

But all I know is when I stop every few weeks at the nearest Wally World there's no .22 LR on the shelves...

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I hope it doesn't turn out to be a case of frog soup;

If you toss a frog into a pot of boiling water he will hop right out. It you put him in a pot of cool water and slowly turn up the heat he will happily swim about until the slow buildup of heat takes him out.

Same/same with gun control. They could pass a law telling people that they had to turn in their guns but it would never play. On the other hand you could chip away at gun ownership by gradually diminishing the supply of fresh ammo.

The end result would be the same.

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Originally Posted by Scrappah

I hope it doesn't turn out to be a case of frog soup;

If you toss a frog into a pot of boiling water he will hop right out. It you put him in a pot of cool water and slowly turn up the heat he will happily swim about until the slow buildup of heat takes him out.

Same/same with gun control. They could pass a law telling people that they had to turn in their guns but it would never play. On the other hand you could chip away at gun ownership by gradually diminishing the supply of fresh ammo.

The end result would be the same.

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Haha
yup or do like everyone else and get it from over seas... yeah it's junk.. hot rounds, duds, and loose seating of bullet... but available at a click of a button.
supply and demand.. If we won't make it and stock it, someone else will.

Yeah .... but if we go that route it turns into a cat and mouse game with the fed. It just makes things worse.

The problem seems to be a wrinkle in the supply chain. It appears that for whatever reason the government is the root cause.

Why not go about fixing the problem ?

Peeps here import tracer ammo from Latiava or someplace. ,308 ammo
Tracer ammo has a shorter shelf life, they remove the tracer and replace it with a different projetile depending on what they do with it.

Its military brass so its not possible to reload without fixing the primer hole.

Funny--I thought tracer ammo just had a bit of magnesium or phosphorus tacked to the base of the bullet. (Whatever metal burns when heated enough).

Didn't think that had a shelf life any different or shorter than that of the chemicals in the primer or gunpowder.

But then again, I found that the military assigns a shelf life to tires--and out the door they go once that life is reached, regardless if they have been used or not. I'm fine with that--got some skookum tires for my forwarder for 100$ each.

Tracer rounds are a blast...but I guess they can be a heck of a fire hazard in dry countryside.

Jon.

that really does sound like an old rolling block,,,,it could be worth some money.....some of those old rolling block guns bring huge dollars,,,some are not as valuable, just like anything else....guns have went up in price so much in the last few years it is insane......

You won't see then do a head on attack. Think biological, chemical or radioactive. It really is their only option to make a dent. Meanwhile, the holes in our border are very inviting to them. A small handful of terrorists infected with Ebola, could get across the border with ease. Steel a truck and head to Houston Hobby airport and touch and cough on as many people as they can get away with. BAM! 5 hours later and infected people are all over the country. This may sound a bit extreme, but if you had say 10 groups of a half a dozen ISIS members trying this, there will certainly be an effect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Copper Head

Sounds like once a month to just buy some .22 would be as good a investment as silver .

I think the USA is so massive in size and many Americans are armed
ISIS and the like ( our most recent threat ) can cause problems
but can't really take all citizens on

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I applaud you for trying to do right. Especially if you think a crime may have occurred from those items. To me, it would depend on the set and setting. If it has any look whatsoever like a crime scene or an evidence dump, I am going to call the law really quick. If it looks like a garage clean out or a foreclosure clean out or something along those lines, then it is going to be my found property.

As far as powder is concerned, hoarding really is not an option unless you can store it properly. I won't even guess at how long powder can be stored properly, but it for sure needs to be kept dry and cool for maximum life span. If one really wants to prepare for a SHTF scenario, they would be better off learning how to make powder rather than storing it. I have the recipe, but have never tried it. It's one of those things that I hope I have the right information to make it from scratch should that ever come about. I actually have a couple of different sources in my library, and they are both so close I think they will work. One is an army manual and the other is "The anarchist's cookbook". Find a copy if you are into that thing. Good info to have. (An e-bay search will mostly give you results for some DVD, not the book).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Copper Head

Back when I first started I used to casually find loaded shot gun shell bullets plenty of times
I was a good little citizen and turn them into the police . Some of the police that see me curb hunt
know i'm the one that turns in bullets . Once I turned in sheriff issued items that they kept for that reason

Well a recent find is some 22 caliber copper - 2 small cans of gun powder & 8 packages of winchester shot gun cartridges starters
so I started to wonder the police or hoard away as if it were silver . The SHTF scenario the value is clear
even though I feel SHTF is a long shot but who knows any more with what is going on in the world.

I also found a 22 rifle that loads 1 at a time but it needs a stock other wise it looks functional . Just for the record guns laws in PA
are easy going . Pistols are legal along with a No Flee from property law .Lots of hunters Guns a plenty.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by parrothead

You won't see then do a head on attack. Think biological, chemical or radioactive. It really is their only option to make a dent. Meanwhile, the holes in our border are very inviting to them. A small handful of terrorists infected with Ebola, could get across the border with ease. Steel a truck and head to Houston Hobby airport and touch and cough on as many people as they can get away with. BAM! 5 hours later and infected people are all over the country. This may sound a bit extreme, but if you had say 10 groups of a half a dozen ISIS members trying this, there will certainly be an effect.

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The thing about Ebola is that it hasn't affected Americans on anything close to a large scale. I can guarantee you that if Ebola were to start affecting Americans, a major effort to find a vaccine or cure would be put underway purely because the large corporations would begin seeing large dollar signs.

I had some time yesterday so i dug into the whole shortage of .22 ammo thing. The most likely reasons for it are:

1: A lot of people are afraid. There was the Y2K scare. Next came the 2012 end of the world thing. The economy isn't doing as well as it could be. The news media is going from crisis to crisis to keep people watching.

2: Ammo production has remained constant. Pre-paranoia ... it was about in balance with demand. It was being replaced as it was being used.

3: Because people are afraid they're putting it into storage. ( hoarding )

4: There's money to be made on re-sale. When the ammo comes available at Wal-Mart they're buying it up at 30 - 35.00 $ a brick and then re-selling at 80.00$/brick because there's a perceived "shortage". People that want to hoard are panic buying.

~ It's most likely just a temporary thing. If people would calm down the problem would clear up. ~

I love the dubba deuce. I own three rifles, two of them are antique Western Field made by Mossberg. The other a Marlin 795, better than a Ruger 10/22 in my opinion. There's a pawn shop I frequent, they usually have boxes of 22 and other cartriges for sale. They also have a couple of darringers for sale, one in 22lr the other 22 magnum.

Scrappah- I agree with almost all of your analysis except the "temporary" thing. I've heard that now for over 2 years (this is now the 3rd hunting season wit spotty .22 availability). It might be temporary in the long run but its still a continued "this sucks" at the present. Of course, if I really was concerned, I'd prowl around the net and find the best buys I could but right now I'm path of least resistance Wally-World occasional buyer (still have plenty of hollow points to fetch a couple seasons of small meat critters).

Here's a more localized situation. In a state that prides itself in hunting, the largest city of 170K (metro area a quarter of a million), there are basically 2 big stores (and there's a fewer smaller places like WW). My bro's friend has a FFL and runs a little gun operation out of there but you wouldn't believe the arrogance of the gun guys in those big stores. Its truly sad from my younger days when there a good number of smaller shops around and a guy didn't feel like he was scum unless he has Uncle Bens falling out of his pocket every few seconds or so. Same thing with the pheasant hunting in this state. You want good land to access, you better be peeling off a good number of the C notes and fast...

This targets non-smoking powder...but from my research it seems one would store old school powder the same. Cool an dry spot, sealed up, can last a lifetime.

The link I'm putting relates the same as I just put above for the most part. Hope it helps some of you.
Alliant Powder - Storage & Handling

An Dakota..forgive me for asking as I do buy my stuff locally but can you order your ammo online from Wal-mart? Might help you with that whole shortage thing. We usually have a good stock of the stuff at my local Wal-Mart but i'm also on a sandbar, so not like I got a ton of people doing a run on ammo.

Back to your regularly scheduled conversation on gun powder an things that go bang bang bang!

Sirscrapalot - For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security. - Thomas Jefferson

I haven't checked on WM's catalog type of ordering. I know my kid has gotten air soft guns and such that way. I'm sure I could go down to one of the 2 main gun stores in the next door city and get on a waiting list and get my "quota". And I still have workable normal times of .22 ammo right now. My whine is just that its no longer business as usual like when you and I grew up, walked into a gun store, buy basically anything you like (if you had the money), and walk out again. That's my only real point to be made...