Need info cool brass winch,

ok, i am pretty sure i hit the flea market jackpot.....i got this old winch yesterday...it is about 90 percent brass....this winch has what looks like a pto shaft to me on the side..it is much smaller than im used to seeing...you can see it in the pics i will post..it looks like a few socket wobbler attatchments hooked together...it has a round female end on it with a place for a pin to go through it
the winch has a plate on each side that is 1/4 inch thick and about 14 in by 14 in....the mounting plate on the bottom is cast iron and is marked 5811-a the only other marking on the winch is LH...i think that means left handed not sure....all the gears are brass, along with the bolts and nuts the spool,mounting plate and a small eyelet on top are cast and everything else is brass...
there is a large spool in the center of the winch along with some smaller brass gears...there is a shaft that runs through the spool and out each side..i believe it is for a hand crank...this crank would only roll the spool, so it would not be operating the winch at all, just moving the spool.....please any info is very much appreciated....ive searched and searched i think it is nautical but may be wrong.......please help

ive tried to add more photos but i cant for some reason, it says ive exceeded my limit

Pic 2 not showing. I think it's a crank to a water well.

i seem to only be able to put up one photo,,,,,it is pretty heavy duty the winch will not operate by the hand crank, the crank will only move the cable spool, the other side has a 6 inch by 1 inch wide brass gear and a 2 inch by 1 inch brass gear,,,it is made for pulling something heavy ....it is geared very very low

Creat a photobucket account load the pics there then post the links it's free

http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/...psd93556dd.jpg

http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/...psc2a7aeb3.jpg

It looks to be made of "Naval Brass" either one of three types C46400, C48200 or C48500. There also a fourth naval brass specification C46200 used for wire and cables. To determine "what is it" one need to sometimes remember there are many brass alloys. All have copper as base metal and zinc as the other metal. Copper is always the primary metal, copper alloys are often labeled "Red Metals" or "Red Alloys" this grouping brass and bronze together. Most all to us have heard and know the difference between red and yellow brass. There are others that are less known, including Naval, White, Gilding, Tombac and Cartridge (there are more). Yes there is a difference between yellow and cartridge brass. Most yards do require these be separated (not always). Yellow brass is usually a 67/33 combination of copper and zinc. Cartridge brass is a 70/30 copper/zinc and some yards will pay a little more for it.

Now back to "what is it"? Brass has many useful characteristics that must be considered. Most know of it's low corrosion properties and this why we see it used for plumbing devices. Another brass property is it has a very low surface friction ratio, less friction equals less wearing and metal fatigue. This is why gears, bushings, keys, locks, hinges and hardware are often a brass alloy. Another useful brass property, brass will not spark with contact to other metal. Very useful when used around flammable fuels and combustible environments. For high speed production of parts made of brass, lead is added (very small amount). This is yellow brass C36000 or "high speed brass", the added lead acts like a internal lubricate, metal percentage (copper 61.5%, zinc 35.4% and lead 3.1%). The added lead enables a company to make more parts in a shorter time, increased profits with each production run! Say good by to C36000, As of 2010 California basically banned anything with lead in it (from keys to pluming fixtures) This is a big thing to any manufacturing company making brass "any things". This effects all of us, California is the seventh largest economy in the world. Almost any legislation in Cal. will effect the rest of the country (the world?). It had a immediate impact on us scrappers, the scrap brass price is down (did you feel it?). The law still allows for products to contain some lead (less than 1%). This is for the recycling of "end of use life" devices (that's us). I raised the lead subject, because when you use a product that has a lead content (we all do), some amount of lead enters your body. How much? A very small amount, the problem is lead is cumulative in our bodies (it just keeps adding up) and it's very toxic (mutates cells). There are many metals and additives that are added to make various brass alloys. All brass will have copper, with white brass having around 50% and red around 85%. Zinc is also in all brass with white having 45 to 50% and red brass only 15%. Aluminum, manganese, tin, iron, arsenic and even lead (about .25% in plumbing devices) is added in small amounts to make the many copper alloys we call "Brass". One of the "New" brass products is C69300 Green Dot Eco brass, made with a 95% recycled from scrap brass (that's us), the new additive "Silicate Inter-metallic Compound" (A mouthful).

Your brass I think is a Naval Brass that could have been used in a very corrosive environment or one that had a high combustible and/or corrosive atmosphere (toxic air). This could be a one of a kind device or only a few custom made for a very limited market. May even be a scaled down prototype, as brass is one of the easiest metal alloys to machine. I see, sell, use and scrap a lot of brass. Will scrap more than 300 pounds of yellow this year. We buy, sell and install a lot brass products. Your brass (winch?), I don't see why a winch would be made of brass. There's not a lot of mechanical advantage for this to be a winch, the gear ratio appears to be very low end. I think more likely to have been used to open/close a door or hatch. Are many other devices that require a manual opening or closing action that had to be controlled by hand (valve, shutter, baffle, lid). This could have been part of a steam engine, fire box, incinerator installed maybe on a sea going vessel. Maybe used in the transport/movement of liquids, gases or even solid materials in some mining operation. It's just to hard to tell with one picture and the provided information (purchased at a flea market). Does not look like low end yellow brass. For it to be heavy duty and strong would require it to be more reddish (higher copper content). It does have a aged look, has the tarnish (patina) of something old.

I wanted to talk about brass, because it's everywhere and has a lot useful applications. Many properties that need to be known. With knowledge of brass properties you can find and scrap more items "Made of Brass". Because of it's copper content their's a high scrap return value. Copper kills germs, virus, fungus, pathogens and limits the transfer of contagious diseases. Brass is used for it's acoustic qualities (bells, horns, pipes, reeds almost all musical devices have some brass). Anything that has repetitive, continuous movement, needs to be accurate, precise and reliable will have a high brass content. If it's needs to be machined, cast, extruded and bent in a high speed production and a mass produced manufacturing process, there' going to be brass. If it's used in any electrical, plumbing or monitoring device there will be brass utilized. My point there's a lot of brass out there, it's easier to find when you know why and how it's used.

Also remember almost any machined brass is going to have some lead in it. If your scrapping process requires cutting, grinding or dismantling any dust/residue needs to be dealt with in safety first manner. There is no safe minimal lead level, meaning any lead that enters your body is harmful. Occupation is the most common source of lead poisoning. Recycling and scrap medal processors are very likely to be poisoned by lead. Best practice in prevention include: protective clothing, gloves, eye and breathing protection, do not bring work clothes into your house and wash your hands before you consume foods or beverages.

Sorry everybody for rambling on about brass, maybe I told you something that you didn't know. Is it a winch? What is it? It's defiantly different than all of the other brass Iv'e seen.
the end.

While I was writing my "Brass Book" you added new pictures and now I see a more red brass, changes the type of brass totally. Also new picture, shows more details and have a better idea of size. Will study this thanks for update!

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Originally Posted by wadarbr549

http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/...psc2a7aeb3.jpg

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The shaft on the top left looks like a brake. The arm on the close end must lock it when pulled down, locking the wheel. the other end looks like a centrifugal brake, the faster it spins the harder the weights rub on the drum slowing it down.
Other then that I have no idea what it was used for.

thank you all very much,,,bigburt thanks a bunch for all the brass info, i learned alot there i did not know......IMMULMEN, i agree with everything you said, that little piece is a brake of some sort...........

i am still stumped at exactly what to call this thing....ive googled my brains out for a week on it....i will look another day or so then it will be listed as "" VINTAGE BRASS WINCH PULLEY GEAR STEAMPUNK ART"" i do think it may be nautical i just cant find any info.....

id say it weighs close to 40 pounds at the least, maybe a bit more so i know ill profit in the end....i only have 12.00 dollars invested in it......

thank you all again for All the help

I can tell you what the environment was like that this device was used in. This can be determine with some certainty, from the "whitish" corrosion and that this corrosion is uniformly distributed. The corrosion often called "white rust" or "wet storage stain". The white residue is actually zinc oxide. It occurs when zinc or alloys containing zinc, has a very wet and continuous exposure to moisture (water). The air atmosphere (quality of air) was low in oxygen and carbon dioxide. In short a condition most metals would fail due to rapid corrosion.

The new pictures tell me this is RED BRASS, WITH A LOW ZINC COMPOSITION. Probably a 5% zinc, 5% tin added as a inhibitor agent to prevent corrosion. May also contain a 1 to 5% lead for machine-ability. Other metals aluminum and iron to harden. One thing is pronounced with the new pictures, there is a high copper content (85% maybe), obvious with the red color. Almost making this "Bronze" as it is Brass, this composition or copper alloy is called "Gun Metal". A very hard, durable and resist corrosion.

As I only see surface white rust and uniform distribution and no signs of galvanic corrosion, that would cause dezincification (the leeching of zinc, resulting in lost zinc and a physically weakened alloy). Who ever designed this device, built it to be strong, endure a corrosive environment. A Nice find, if it was me, I would keep it, but I'm weird, I keep old $hit with no possible future use.

Did you clean the front plate any? looks like someone has, that white rust should be on all of the device (are most of it). You can tell because it is behind all of the moving parts and inside the device frame. I'm thinking this was not a permanently installed device. More like was installed or attached to a much larger unit to facilitate a task (loading/unloading, maintenance/repairs). It looks like it was pinned or bolted to for temporary use. More like a tool, than a part of larger unit. (guessing, with a technical background).

it actually had a very light coating of very dark almost black corosion all over this piece, the white you see was not present until i hit it with some non abrasive copper cleaner,,,the white is actually spots that i didnt get 100 percent of the cleaner off of,,the piece looked more like steel than brass when i discovered it, thats how i got it cheap....there was just a hint of green showing on the inside that caught my eye.....

someone told me earlier today it may have been used in a brewery or food factory......i will probably never know for sure i will be listing it tomorrow night on e bay.......i will gladly accept title ideas if anyone wants to throw some out there....thank you again for your time and sharing of info

That makes total sense and adds to my opinion, moving closer (just a little) "what is it". The white rust is uniform corrosion, the most common type of corrosion. The color of the corroded device, will vary depending on other factors. The best example of uniform corrosion (I can think of), copper when exposed to "normal" working conditions, gets a greenish color often called patina. In this case it can even be desirable outcome. The fact that this type of corrosion is "uniform" can be utilized, giving a thin barrier or "shield". By design giving a device protection from other types of corrosion. It is still a corrosion, but usually a working norm, with negligible if any cause for concern. With uniform corrosion, the devices "working life" will end way before uniform corrosion becomes a problem. Simple solution if needed in preventing uniform corrosion - paint or plating. This is why kitchen/bathroom facets are chrome platted. The device you have didn't need painting as, the designer/builder knew what type of metal was needed for it's working environment. This "thing" was well built (like a tank) and probably had a long working life. Who ever told you it was used in food/beverage industry was going in the right direction. The black and dark coating is more likely, residue of a product being made, that buildup to a permanent grime. I'm assuming there are no markings, numbers or dating on your "what is it" device. Why I also think this may be a "one of a kind" custom built. A mass produced item usually has some way of manufacture tracking for a lot of reasons. In the food/beverage industry the making/processing of products are developed "in house". They guard just about all aspect of the process, even the equipment and special tools become proprietary properties.

As for E bay not much I can help you with. I keep telling myself to start selling and open a account. Have a roomful of found items and some "what is it's". It's my stash of better than scrap, I keep it locked at all times, no employee's allowed. It's next to my dumpster sorting and scrap shop (also a restricted area) both very near my office (for a lot reasons). I do let people into my stash room (GF, Daughter, Mom and a few others), they call it shopping at "The Shop". In the stash room is everything from light bulbs to jewelry. My favorite area of stash room is the, Vintage, Antique, and "What is it". Anyone that's been in that room, has said the same thing, I can't believe someone threw that away! I love "what is it's" they get my attention every time, as did yours. I wish you well on your E bay sale. I would call it, "what is it", but I'm a "simple man".

This thing is driving me crazy!! ヾ(｡ꏿ﹏ꏿ)ﾉﾞ

What the heck is it?? A gearbox of some kind? Maybe a belt went around that spool-like piece, so the rotation of the shaft would also cause whatever was at the other end of that belt to rotate. Or maybe it's the other way around, and the belt is actually what powered the shaft. It looks like the shaft and all those gears are going to turn just so that one little perpendicular gear will rotate that dangly thing in the first picture. What is that thing, anyway???

Have you figured out what the cross-piece is that I've circled in the photo below? Are those wires inside the messy yellow circle I drew? Are they windings? Wow, this is terrible. I'm so clueless I don't even know who I could ask to help us figure it out...

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6ee8a5a3.jpg

I think you should call it a "Big Brass Brainteaser Widget." I'm sure folks on eBay are searching for those all the time. :&

Psst..FL..you can use a thinner paint brush when making circles on peoples pictures. ;)

Sirscrapalot - Hiding from FL now.

thanks for all the help folks, i am still at a loss at what exactly to call it......ill post some ebay links later im in the process of listing things at the moment......i gota get ir done tonite...i go in to get my other hand operated on tomorrow,, so ill be crippled for another 10 days or so.....

Good luck with the hand!

Sirscrapalot - Do vegetarians eat animal crackers?

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Originally Posted by Sirscrapalot

Psst..FL..you can use a thinner paint brush when making circles on peoples pictures. ;)

Sirscrapalot - Hiding from FL now.

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I blame it on Photobucket. They only have 3 sizes: big, bigger, and armageddon.

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Originally Posted by wadarbr549

thanks for all the help folks, i am still at a loss at what exactly to call it......ill post some ebay links later im in the process of listing things at the moment......i gota get ir done tonite...i go in to get my other hand operated on tomorrow,, so ill be crippled for another 10 days or so.....

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Oh no! Hope it all goes well and you heal nice and fast.

P.S. Almost done with that calculator list. I thought I was finished, but I foolishly did a Google search and landed on a page full of pictures of Remington calculators I had never even heard of! Now I'm figuring out how they fit in with the well-known ones. And if they're valuable, of course! ;-)

Flimits those are springs and that part, I think is speed limiting device (a brake). Haven't seen one just like that one, but many similar. Like you these things get me going and exhausting my large technical library on this one. Reading late into the night what most would find very boring.

well its up on ebay now so wish me luck,,,,i hope i find a home for it,,,,,if not you know what will happen.....