Held to ransom....

Hi
Been selling on ebay now for over a year now , with few problems (appart from silly fees). Sold a low value item with free postage , due to it's low value sent by normal mail. Now having problems with buyer saying 'i've not got it'. This would normal be a simple full refund and take a loss , but now they are playing games and saying 'I want it by Monday or i want a refund and will leave neg feedback'.I have worked hard to get my good feedback(100%/200 positive).

Just feel like giving up on ebay , has anyone had a similar thing happen to them?

Any advice or similar stories would be welcome.

Thanks

From what I understand anytime a Buyer plays the "I going to leave negative feedback card", Ebay sides with the other party or you in this case. Notify Ebay.

Report it to EBAY right away

Definitely call ebay, they can see the messages you have sent to each other. That's called extortion and even if they do leave neg. feedback they can have it removed and put a strike on the other guys account. There wasn't any tracking # was there?

This is why I have 2 accounts.. one for buying and one for selling. Had this happen once. Woman gave me a neg feedback- yet never PAID for the auction item. It was a mess to get the neg removed!

Just had this problem with a buy it now.

Guy bought it in the wee hours sat night. I didn't get a chance to ship it until about Wed. due to a funeral, that I let him know about it. Then it was memorial weekend. He was sending me all kinds of crap over memorial weekend that he hasn't gotten it blah blah blah. Do you expect people to deliver memorial weekend? I took a loss on the item anyways (my fault). I haven't seen a feedback yet. This guy was literally screaming and pissing everywhere. He opened a case on saturday because that is "ridiculous".

I didn't think one week was all that big of a deal. I don't expect anything I get from eBay for a week or two up front, so I'm always surprised when it's here in a couple days. Shouldn't that be the norm?

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Originally Posted by lousypirate

Just had this problem with a buy it now.

I didn't think one week was all that big of a deal. I don't expect anything I get from eBay for a week or two up front, so I'm always surprised when it's here in a couple days. Shouldn't that be the norm?

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depends on how you have the shipping policy listed. I don't want to wait a "week or two" for anything ordered. I choose who to purchase from, many times, because of their policy.

I ship the same way. Usually, it is out the door same day, or next. The few times I have been late getting something out, have never had an issue, as long as I communicated well with the buyer. jus my2

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Originally Posted by jw7783

Definitely call ebay, they can see the messages you have sent to each other. That's called extortion and even if they do leave neg. feedback they can have it removed and put a strike on the other guys account. There wasn't any tracking # was there?

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No tracking number....This was a low value item so the extra cost would make the item too costly or wipe-out any profit......99 out of 100 get there ontime and safely.
on the rare times it dosen't buyers are ok with a full refund...

Have contacted ebay and await a responce..
Thanks for everybodies sound advice

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Originally Posted by lousypirate

Just had this problem with a buy it now.

Guy bought it in the wee hours sat night. I didn't get a chance to ship it until about Wed. due to a funeral, that I let him know about it. Then it was memorial weekend. He was sending me all kinds of crap over memorial weekend that he hasn't gotten it blah blah blah. Do you expect people to deliver memorial weekend? I took a loss on the item anyways (my fault). I haven't seen a feedback yet. This guy was literally screaming and pissing everywhere. He opened a case on saturday because that is "ridiculous".

I didn't think one week was all that big of a deal. I don't expect anything I get from eBay for a week or two up front, so I'm always surprised when it's here in a couple days. Shouldn't that be the norm?

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This was a similar thing with a 'bank holiday' and weekend....Soon as 5 days had past 'case opened' . The messages in the case seem to be practiced as if the buyer has used this before to get free items......But as i say most buyers (300+) play by the rules ......There must be a lesson to be learnt in this case .... but for the life in me i can't see it;(

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Originally Posted by sledge

This is why I have 2 accounts.. one for buying and one for selling. Had this happen once. Woman gave me a neg feedback- yet never PAID for the auction item. It was a mess to get the neg removed!

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Yes i'm with the what a mess to get it removed over half an hour on the phone just to try and report the buyer.Then no firm reponce from fleabay , just a wait until neg feedback then ring us again:k.
Just so annoyed.(but as i said one bad buyer out of 300+ i'm prob lucky).
TX

The reason I use tracking on every item, even if I already lost on it, is because people see their package arrive with no number, so they know there is technically no proof that it was delivered. Then they contact you asking where it is, and how are you supposed to know if they received it or not? All you can go by is the buyer's word. Not saying this is what happened, but it is a possibility

I always ship with a tracking number. I got burned on one item and learned my lesson. I also say that I will ship within two days; usually don't list something on ebay until I already have a box that I can ship it. I always insure it, too. UPS gives you $100 in the standard ground rate.

+1 on the Tracking Number...If it's not worth the money for a TN then it may not be worth selling.

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Originally Posted by KzScrapper

+1 on the Tracking Number...If it's not worth the money for a TN then it may not be worth selling.

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Yes i'm seing that now maybe thats the lesson ;)
TX all again great responces - made me feel more positive and i will see this thou'

I don't know how shipping works with ebay in "Jolly Old" but here I use the ebay shipping option. Shipping first class US mail includes the tracking and anything that weighs over 13 ounces generally goes priority mail or FedEx both of which come with tracking. The discounts that are included with shipping through ebay make it well worth it for me.

Keep at it and fine tune your operation. I just remember I'm selling used stuff and sometimes it arrives broken. I expect that I will have to refund occasionally but I do everything I can to avoid problems. Best of luck Mike.

UPDATE ....after taking your good peoples advice all seems to be good AGAIN a BIG thanks for your help...

Couple of buyers today have paid the extra for signed for del. They seem to be responding to my addition of............................................ ' We are sorry but due to the actions of a small number of buyers who claim 'non delivery' we can not entertain any of these claims unless you select the 'signed for/tracked service' even then if a signed for / tracked item is signed for (By yourself or others) then any claim MUST be made to the carrier. We will provide any tracking / proof of postage to aide this. Again SORRY for this but as we are sure you know most buyers are honest but as in life a few people 'try it on'.If not we obtain proof of postage which we will give you a copy of if you need it.
We are sorry if this causes any problems but don't blame us.


Hat is off to all .... Live and learn

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Originally Posted by british

UPDATE ....after taking your good peoples advice all seems to be good AGAIN a BIG thanks for your help...

Couple of buyers today have paid the extra for signed for del. They seem to be responding to my addition of............................................ ' We are sorry but due to the actions of a small number of buyers who claim 'non delivery' we can not entertain any of these claims unless you select the 'signed for/tracked service' even then if a signed for / tracked item is signed for (By yourself or others) then any claim MUST be made to the carrier. We will provide any tracking / proof of postage to aide this. Again SORRY for this but as we are sure you know most buyers are honest but as in life a few people 'try it on'.If not we obtain proof of postage which we will give you a copy of if you need it.
We are sorry if this causes any problems but don't blame us.


Hat is off to all .... Live and learn

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Waste of time to add that to your auctions on eBay >> and looks bad to some potential Buyers
Up to you to get a tracking number if you want one
As a Buyer I don't need one,
As a Buyer I don't have to deal with your Carrier
I just open an INR claim >> Item Not Received >> and unless you (the Seller) has tracking showing the item was delivered to my zip code
I would get a FULL refund >> Item price + what I paid for the original shipping & handling

I don't put up with ANY of this bullcrap...I have a full set of terms and conditions that are professional and legal, always ship with tracking numbers (and I NEVER EVER pay for shipping on my end, buyers pays 100% of the time) and anyone threatening me with neg feedback gets reported along with my terms and conditions (it states in part that by bidding you are agreeing with all the terms and conditions and those replace the general terms that Ebay has)...end of story. Suffice to say I have never had an issue yet.

If you sell on Ebay, take control and act like a business with proper terms and conditions that protect YOU, not the buyer.....oh and tracking numbers 100% of the time...don't put up with *******s..

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Originally Posted by webuyselltradestuff

I don't put up with ANY of this bullcrap...I have a full set of terms and conditions that are professional and legal, always ship with tracking numbers (and I NEVER EVER pay for shipping on my end, buyers pays 100% of the time) and anyone threatening me with neg feedback gets reported along with my terms and conditions (it states in part that by bidding you are agreeing with all the terms and conditions and those replace the general terms that Ebay has)...end of story.

.

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I have FREE shipping and my Buyers pay for the shipping, The eBay & PayPal fees, Large profit AND a Jelly donut

Does not matter what "bullcrap" you have listed as terms and conditions as eBay's & PayPal terms and conditions overrule yours
People that have >> No refunds << are some of the best examples
If you list on eBay and take PayPal as payment
You do give FULL refunds no matter what is listed in your TOS >> Terms of sale

[QUOTE=JohnC4X4;204613]I have FREE shipping and my Buyers pay for the shipping, The eBay & PayPal fees, Large profit AND a Jelly donut

Does not matter what "bullcrap" you have listed as terms and conditions as eBay's & PayPal terms and conditions overrule yours
People that have >> No refunds << are some of the best examples
If you list on eBay and take PayPal as payment
You do give FULL refunds no matter what is listed in your TOS >> Terms of sale[/QUOTE
I see your point , but if you see my post 'most buyers play fair ' thing . I after adding this have sold the same number of items and when they pay a bit more for 'signed for' / 'tracked' they get the item quicker and leave great 'feedback'. I don't know why but if (Here) you post as 'signed for'/'tracked' it gets there sooner.
This is only a problem on 'low value' items as i ship anything of value 'tracked'
Again true thanks for all your advice it's been so uplifting and helpfull
Regards British

I also make ALOT of money on Ebay and having this stuff takes care of all that....I just make it a CONTRACT when they bid AND those terms are PART of the contract to bid....NEVER had an issue since I started using them and I absolutely would present these terms to BOTH paypal and vi/mc as needed....each to their own...I just CYA and in general, the THREAT of them losing wins 99% of the time if they tried any crap... :)

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Originally Posted by JohnC4X4

I have FREE shipping and my Buyers pay for the shipping, The eBay & PayPal fees, Large profit AND a Jelly donut

Does not matter what "bullcrap" you have listed as terms and conditions as eBay's & PayPal terms and conditions overrule yours
People that have >> No refunds << are some of the best examples
If you list on eBay and take PayPal as payment
You do give FULL refunds no matter what is listed in your TOS >> Terms of sale

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Webuysell,
Can I have a look at one of your eBay sales? I'm curious to have a look at your fine print. I always thought that eBay's policies overruled everyone else's fine print.

Have you had any scraps with customers that eBay ruled on, using your terms and conditions?

Thanks,
Jon.

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Originally Posted by sawmilleng

I always thought that eBay's policies overruled everyone else's fine print.

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Correct
Neither eBay nor PayPal care what the Sellers TOS is

Here is what I use (per the request above)...not had one single issue AND I would use this as evidence to fight an attempted refund. I have had to deal with those on paypal before BTW, and have won several....also have with VI/MC. :)

Not saying what you have said otherwise it true or not true...I just know that 99% of people that read these tend to not try to push the issue lest they lose. So the deterrent works in any event.

PLEASE BID ONLY WHEN YOU INTEND TO BUY !!
PLEASE READ AND UNDERSTAND ALL TERMS BELOW, BY BIDDING YOU HAVE EXPRESSLY REPRESENTED THAT YOU AGREE TO AND UNDERSTAND ALL THE TERMS LISTED BELOW.

PAYMENTS:
Payments are required within 24 hours of purchase, otherwise I will reserve the right to relist the auction and negative unpaid strike will be left for non-payers. Buying on Ebay is a contract, please make sure you plan on completing your end of the contract.

SHIPPING:
The shipping charge includes all shipping and handling charges and all the costs incurred for the shipping fees for this auction. If you do not agree with the shipping charge, please do not place bid.
For international shipments we only ship via UPS since they can track door to door to most locations…however, we CANNOT be responsible if a carrier loses a package, once we deliver the package to them and it is shipped, it is no longer our responsibility. If you DO NOT agree with this policy, DO NOT PLACE A BID. You EXPRESSLY revoke your right to chargeback or dispute at any time with your Credit Card Company, Paypal and Ebay if the tracking number is provided and the item was not delivered or lost by UPS. You certainly may seek remedy with UPS at your expense and time. In the event that UPS CANNOT provide tracking door to door to your location, you will be given the right to cancel the auction for a refund...IF you agree to ship anyways, you EXPRESSLY revoke your right to chargeback or dispute at any time with your Credit Card Company, Paypal and Ebay and assume all responsibility for the package once a tracking number from UPS is provided via Ebay. In the event, any import or duty fees are assessed by your country, YOU are solely responsible for those fees and EXPRESSLY revoke your right to chargeback or dispute at any time with your Credit Card Company, Paypal and Ebay for the package. We cannot know positively if any of these fees can or will be assessed, so these fees are strictly your responsibility above and beyond the item cost and shipping fees.

Please leave us feedback once you receive the item, we will return the same favor.

Please contact us DIRECTLY if there are any issues with a product that we sell to you. We will make every effort to resolve any issues with a product…we inspect each and every product for it is shipped and do our best to provide an accurate assessment of the product in the description of the auction, HOWEVER, we have a no return policy on any items in which an “issue” is described…for example, if a laptop is sold as NON-tested/for parts, then we will not accept a return for the item if you receive it and it doesn’t power on or does not work as that was explained in the description as a non-tested/for parts item.

Webuysell,

Looks like a pretty straightforward (and understandable!) TOS. Thanks for posting it. You say you have had very little trouble with deadbeats trying to screw with you? Or, on the flip side, have you had any problems with eBay siding with the customer against you?

Jon.

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Originally Posted by webuyselltradestuff

PLEASE BID ONLY WHEN YOU INTEND TO BUY !!
PLEASE READ AND UNDERSTAND ALL TERMS BELOW, BY BIDDING YOU HAVE EXPRESSLY REPRESENTED THAT YOU AGREE TO AND UNDERSTAND ALL THE TERMS LISTED BELOW.

PAYMENTS:
Payments are required within 24 hours of purchase, otherwise I will reserve the right to relist the auction and negative unpaid strike will be left for non-payers. Buying on Ebay is a contract, please make sure you plan on completing your end of the contract.

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You can "require" payment within 24 hours
BUT >> Buyers have at least 1 minute short of 6 days to pay
You can't do anything if they don't pay for at least 48 hours
Unpaid item dispute can be opened at 48 hours and closed 4 days after that

Once the unpaid item is closed neither party can leave Feed Back
Unpaid item will give "Buyer" a strike >> Sellers can set their blocks to prevent "Buyers" with 2 or more unpaid item strikes from purchasing from them
Once the unpaid item dispute is closed by Seller >> eBay refunds final value fees

negative unpaid strike will be left for non-payers. << Is there a Positive Unpaid item strike on eBay?

John -

I KNOW Ebays "rules" that you cited...that does not mean I cannot write what I want to and again 99% of people comply since they won't challenge something they might lose. It is what it is...I do GREAT by having this and have almost ZERO issues because of it. I do not agree with Ebay's policy of no negative feedbacks for non payment of a contract/auction, but that is another discussion.

You seem to do fine with your way of doing things and I do fine with mine...my whole point was just to stop taking CRAP from idiots behind a screen and take control. The THREAT seems to work great for me as a deterrent and really if enough people would just SUE Ebay/Paypal in small claims for improper refunds (they wouldn't even show up to court because of the costs and you would get a default judgement), I bet alot of this stuff would stop. It is happening more and more with big companies like ATT Mobility, ect. I have a love/hate relationship with Ebay/Paypal....they are the main game in town, but I don't have to like the way they have manipulated the marketplace and gave Buyer's the advantage in every way....and I don't have to put up with it if I educate myself with remedies I can use to protect myself.

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Originally Posted by webuyselltradestuff

Here is what I use (per the request above)...not had one single issue AND I would use this as evidence to fight an attempted refund. I have had to deal with those on paypal before BTW, and have won several....also have with VI/MC. :)

Not saying what you have said otherwise it true or not true...I just know that 99% of people that read these tend to not try to push the issue lest they lose. So the deterrent works in any event.

PLEASE BID ONLY WHEN YOU INTEND TO BUY !!
PLEASE READ AND UNDERSTAND ALL TERMS BELOW, BY BIDDING YOU HAVE EXPRESSLY REPRESENTED THAT YOU AGREE TO AND UNDERSTAND ALL THE TERMS LISTED BELOW.

<snip>

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I had to chuckle when I read this. I do believe it may work as a deterrent to some. However, it will definitely serve as a turn off to many buyers, myself included. Further, it is absolutely worthless on eBay or in a court of law. I have been buying and selling on eBay since 99 and I have found almost no problems with items I sell. 99.9% of the buyers are absolutely honest and do not take advantage. Occasionally you get one and tracking will save your butt, so always have tracking. EBay's policy is, if you have tracking and the carrier reports receipt of the item under that number, you cannot be charged with not shipping it. You may still have to reimburse but that depends on the circumstance. All priority comes with $100 insurance on eBay and if it is worth more I would buy insurance anyway. Add the cost into your price.

I also use a reverse tactic that works well for me. I am low key and respectful to all potential customers. When a customer pays promptly (I require within 4 days) I always leave feedback immediately. As a seller I cannot leave negative feedback anyway, so this actually serves to make most people feel obligated to either leave good feedback or none at all (if they are less than satisfied). I make it clear I will work with any buyer that has an issue and comes to me before leaving feedback. I figure I will have to reimburse them anyway, so I might as well do it voluntarily and save the negative feedback. I am over 1700 at 100% positive.

Bottom line is that without a tracking # you'd lose that battle... Simple solution is to play nice and refund the "low value" they paid. Save your feedback score from the punishment for nothing.

Always get a tracking #, there are lots of people who claim they didn't receive something simply because they noticed the seller didn't use tracking.

Just my 2 cents but just because a buyer threatens negative feedback doesn't mean eBay will side with you in a dispute.

If they didn't receive it then they didn't receive it, can you prove otherwise? If not then you are at fault.

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Originally Posted by jw7783

Definitely call ebay, they can see the messages you have sent to each other. That's called extortion and even if they do leave neg. feedback they can have it removed and put a strike on the other guys account. There wasn't any tracking # was there?

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Worked like a dream no Freeback from either of us was allowed ....Great result

British - The Man Who now tracks every order......Thanks all! (You cant put a value on good advice):winner:

"You can't put a value on good advice" - British

I beg to differ sir! I value my good advice at the minimum of 2 cold beverages, adult or not. ;)

On a serious note, glad it's working for you. eBay is a great tool once you learn how the game is played an how to jump the hoops you need. Not the thing for me any more, but always glad to see another conquer it an do well.

I hate the game, not the player. ;)

Sirscrapalot - DFTBA! - FLimits

Oh Had 4 cold ones but ...........Seem to have drunk them........OOOOPPPPSSS

British - MUST learn to share his cool ones ....... when hell freezes over maybe ..... It's not my fault they just called 'Daddy' and i HAD to.

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Originally Posted by jw7783

The reason I use tracking on every item, even if I already lost on it, is because people see their package arrive with no number, so they know there is technically no proof that it was delivered.

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I know I am responding to a post that is 4 months old and someone may have already said this.
I rarely ask for a tracking number. If the 6 x 9 envelope that I normally use is real thin I throw in some bubblewrap to thicken up the package. The clerks at the postoffice put on their own tracking number. This internal tracking number shows up on the post office web site and you can track the package.

Cyberdan, don't I know you from treasurenet forum?

I send tracking on everything. It's well worth the cost- especially for valuable items (I sell computer systems).

I have Terms of Service agreement, and know that I can't uphold at least half of it. Most buyers will be fine, though.

I haven't had problems with customers not buying my stuff. Last Christmas season, I sold out of computers by the 10th of December. My last computer on eBay (Acer Netbook priced slightly above market value) sold within 3 hours.

For common items, I'll wait for a buyer that is fine with my terms. I'll have tracking and insurance. If there are damaged goods, I'll help the buyer with their claim by showing images of the packed box and the contents.

I absolutely hate eBay's policies. But, I've done okay with them.

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