Seeking Advice Anyone ?

Hello everyone as many of you know or should know now that I am telling you . I just graduated from high school a couple months ago , I decided to go into HVAC since i am more of a hands on learner person . I took one class of sheet metal and need 5 more to get my basic level one certificate.

Long story short i wanted to do something related with computers software engineer or hardware , network admin or such. But did not want to do a bachelors since i do not have the means or find it useful to go 4 years into a thing where maybe i can learn in two years or less work experience or such ?

I would love any advice from you guys if you have any background or struggled like me back when you graduated from high school . Honestly i feel like a bum because right now i just help dad scrap to get by the bills and get around 300 myself a week.
Any tips or advice are welcomed . Don't worry about being soft on me just please be realistic and try and help me abit

Thanks in advanced guys

This is my experience from a long time ago...the tech industry is very saturated with highly qualified people. Not only do you need training, but also experience to help you land a good job.

Some certifications to persue:

Certifications - IT Certification and Career Paths - Cisco Systems
MCSE Certification
Oracle Certification | Certification | Oracle

These programs do not require a 4 year college. Something to think about.

I know my town is full of computer related graduates working at McDonalds. I was in my second year of journeyman millwright school when I graduated high school and turned down a college scolarship to finisn the program. I have always prefered to work with my hands and it has worked well for me.

Thanks guys , I'd figure experience it was matters most before the fancy piece of paper one pays for . I was thinking of certifications mentioned in the post and was thinking who would hire an unexperienced 19 year old just for having a certification ?

First of all, helping your Dad scrapping shouldn't make you feel like a bum. Scrapping is a profession like any other and made many millionaires. Any thing you choose to do in or with your life is what YOU make it. Apply your self, and do your best at what ever you choose and it will make you proud. Pay no attention to what others think of it, you know what and who you are. That is the only thing that counts. Freonjoe and others here have made a carrier in the very field you are looking at pm him I'm sure he and others will be glad to help guide you in the right direction. Live can only be what YOU make it. mcw

P.S.
Cisco certification was mentioned above. I have scrapped 0ver 1000 servers and I will give you this Cisco and Sun are by miles the best built IT products this planet has ever seen so, there certification program has to be very good. Sun was so well built they put them selves out of business. I get 20 year old sun servers from my main contractor that still work like new and have never been rebuilt just upgraded.

Thanks old dude , I really appreciate those words of wisdom . And I have been helping him for about 7 months now have some $ saved up . Since i am not a citizen here I can't have much financial aid. So that is why I"m thinking of certifications that would really help me get out there to
Get experience for a few years . I am actually pretty content scrapping , but I would love to have a tech related job and scrap on the side as well . I love scrapping because everyday we do something different . Monday thru Monday

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Originally Posted by TheScrapper1

Thanks guys , I'd figure experience it was matters most before the fancy piece of paper one pays for . I was thinking of certifications mentioned in the post and was thinking who would hire an unexperienced 19 year old just for having a certification ?

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Nobody does!

If you want a job in a professional setting they look for a 4yr. degree. Bussiness want to know you can complete something long term. There are exceptions but the rule is 4yr.

You can get in on the ground level setting up PCs for a business with a certificate. Work your way up and see everyone with a degree pass you by, and then get to the top in 20yr. Or go to school for 4yr and be a contender.

A certificate is something you get when you have a job to get paid more. Its hard to get anything with one.

Eric

Thanks Eric as I stated earlier I'm in that point in life where I really don't know what else do to besides scrap . I would want a decent paying job . I see construction guys txting and getting payed $27hr jobs just for holding a stick not to be rude.

Most skilled trades make above average wages. Flaggers only make that king of money when they are working a davis-bacon job.

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Originally Posted by TheScrapper1

Thanks guys , I'd figure experience it was matters most before the fancy piece of paper one pays for . I was thinking of certifications mentioned in the post and was thinking who would hire an unexperienced 19 year old just for having a certification ?

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The firm that hired my grandson. He graduates HS next month. He trained in Precision Machining the last year and passed the cert. He starts at $50,000/yr as soon he graduates.

Is he working something like Cnc : cad mold making ?
And what firm was it ? That's good pay

Honestly, it will be very hard to get any job in a technology field without a degree. There are always going to be other people applying for those jobs who do have degrees, and employers are going to give them preference almost every time. A tech certification with no degree + no experience won't solve that problem, because you'll be up against a bunch of guys with better qualifications.

So...if you reallywant to work in IT, you either have to spend the next 4 years getting the appropriate degree (not just "a" degree) or you have to get really lucky and find a way to accumulate several years of job experience in one specialization. If you manage to pull off that second option, your choices going forward are still more limited than they would be if you had the degree, but at least for some jobs in that particular specialization you should be able to nudge out totally green applicants who have nothing but a degree.

The technology field also has some characteristics that make it particularly tough, and knowing about them will help you with your decision-making:

First, a lot of the specific skills you acquire today will become obsolete in the course of your working life. This means you'd be signing up for a profession in which you will always have to update your skill set. Everything you know will have to be updated, often at a rapid pace, and over the years, a lot of what you've learned will become virtually worthless.

Second, there is a lot of competitive pressure, and it comes not only from the domestic market but also from overseas. As a result, employers don't usually have to offer really high pay to fill most of these jobs, and a lot of work has moved offshore. So if you want to do anything in the computer/technology industry, try to choose something that can't be outsourced. An outsourcing-proof job would be installation and maintenance of network systems, for example, or even sales. Actually, if you like selling, the tech field could be interesting, because you would get some technical training but wouldn't have to keep learning all the minute details about every system you sell over the years. Plus the contact base you build up over the years will be an asset that retains much of its value.

Third, many employers seem to think IT people should be willing to work longer hours and be more productive than many other types of employees. The fact that there are always other candidates to fill a particular position is one factor that has contributed to this mindset. For tech support jobs (for example, an IT person who works for a non-technology company), I also think many employers don't realize how much work their tech personnel are actually doing. Management just wants things to work, and they're willing to spend a certain amount to get that. So the IT people either deliver the goods at that price or they get replaced.

Now, despite all that, the tech field can be really fun if you like what you're doing. It's never boring, and you get to work with some amazing people, many of whom are very generous about sharing the knowledge they have acquired. Sometimes you even get a job where you can wear jeans and a t-shirt every day if you feel like it. But it does require hard work, and it can be very tough to maintain the pace that's expected of you. A lot of people leave the field or switch over to management jobs because they burn out. Long-term job security is definitely not one of the benefits of choosing this type of work.

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Originally Posted by TheScrapper1

Is he working something like Cnc : cad mold making ?
And what firm was it ? That's good pay

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I didn't see this before my daughter called this afternoon so don't know the company. I think CNC. I found out that he actually starts tomorrow. Mornings at work; afternoons at HS till he graduates. Flexibility like that shows demand. I'd still think carefully about the time and financial commitment for a four year degree. My stepdaughter got a Master's in Social Work, has her own practice and is employed part time and still barely scraping by. Student loan payments for the rest of her life instead of cars, house and vacation.

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Originally Posted by Mick

I didn't see this before my daughter called this afternoon so don't know the company. I think CNC. I found out that he actually starts tomorrow. Mornings at work; afternoons at HS till he graduates. Flexibility like that shows demand. I'd still think carefully about the time and financial commitment for a four year degree. My stepdaughter got a Master's in Social Work, has her own practice and is employed part time and still barely scraping by. Student loan payments for the rest of her life instead of cars, house and vacation.

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It's definitely true that just getting "a" degree doesn't necessarily mean you're guaranteed a well-paid job. However, 4-year degrees in certain areas, such as various types of engineering, applied math/statistics, and even economics, really do have a lot of value in the jobs marketplace. Those grads usually get jobs if they want one. There are also a lot of jobs that require you to have some kind of 4-year degree just to get in the door for an interview. In a lot of fields, the bachelor's degree has become what a high school degree used to be: If you don't have one, you can't apply. The flip side of that, of course, is that just having a 4-year degree doesn't ensure you're going to make a good living. And for the most highly paid jobs, even a 4-year degree usually won't be enough. There again, though, the type of degree really matters. A Ph.D. in English, for example, isn't something you'd get if you want a great future career. But even a master's degree in something like engineering or applied math, or an MBA, can open a lot of doors that would otherwise remain firmly closed.

A master's in social work isn't necessarily geared toward a high-earning career, but it does mean you can have your own practice, which is an option a lot of people find desirable. Over time, if your stepdaughter decides to build up her practice, she should be able to do pretty well for herself. I know someone with the same type of degree who has her own practice, has clients every day, and charges over $200 per session, so if she just does one day with 8 clients, that's over $1600. And she gets to make her own schedule, which is very valuable to her because she has kids and her husband has a normal 9-5 job. So don't worry; your stepdaughter might end up doing just fine!

Flimits reminds us of all of the challenges facing individuals when they try to break into the workforce regardless of the occupation. Given your location and interests another perspective is being offered. Research local companies you might be interested in. Research the company inside and out, knowing as much about them as the owner or the board of directors. Follow the typical channels for employment through public relations. Wait about two weeks and gain access to the public relations office. Tell the receptionist you are there to apply for a job and will wait until someone is available to visit with you. Because of your interest and research, you should know the acceptable dress code and dress appropriately. This ensures you are not undressed or overdressed. Visit with the receptionist and get as much information about the company as you can. She is the key to getting to the next level. Be prepared to do the same thing the next day, and everyday afterwards until they are tired of seeing you and will interview you.

Be honest with your interests and what you can provide the company. PR personal look good when they can find the ideal employee. Most companies want someone that can think outside the box and this approach will demonstrate this trait to them. Do not limit your options, just tell them you chose their company because of the information you researched. As you gain entrance into the company you will find your skills and how you can benefit the company. Once you are inside the door, they will provide the education.

The moral of the story, you do not know your value to society until you enter the workforce. As long as you are open minded and willing to learn, opportunities will present themselves. My sister stared as a receptionists, and is now the head of an IT department in a major US corporation. A brother started as a designer of kitchen cabinets and now sells IT products for HP. I started as a millwright, turned to education/part time scrapper, and retired from education and now serve as a consultant for salvage operations.

You never know where life will lead you. Be open to leaning and create a network. Do not think you will meet your parents lifestyle out of the gate. The best advice I received was decide what you want to do and move to where you can do it, or decide where you want to live and find a way to make a living. Do not burn bridges, keep an open mind, and follow your heart. The point is, very few of the individuals on the forum could have predicted there present situation ten years ago. Good luck and keep us posted.

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Originally Posted by TheScrapper1

Thanks Eric as I stated earlier I'm in that point in life where I really don't know what else do to besides scrap . I would want a decent paying job . I see construction guys txting and getting payed $27hr jobs just for holding a stick not to be rude.

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If it interests you at all i was one of those construction guys that started out driving truck and flagging. Here in WI (and I know it is the same in IL) there is a lot of money to be made in construction if you work hard. I then got promoted to an operator running heavy equipment. I did a paid apprenticeship and can go to school anytime for free. Shoot me a P.M. and I can discuss into detail more.

Thanks guys I really appreciate all your advice and I am mainly worried about my investment "college tuition" and what I will really get out of it . If I want to live with loans for a decade or so or if I want a steady job with a good living .

It really is terrible that college costs so much money now. This is where going to a state school can at least lighten the burden some. It's also tough to have to make some of these big decisions when you're not even 20 yet. I don't know how anyone is supposed to figure out their whole future when they've never even lived on their own, but unfortunately that's kind of what you have to do. The whole system seems a little nutty to me, but as they say, it is what it is. I guess the best advice I personally can offer is to think really carefully not only about what you want right now but also about what kinds of options you want in the future. Nobody has to go to college. You can make decent money in several fields without any degree. By the same token, there are certain types of jobs you can't get without the right degree. Look at your preferences and your options, both present and future, as realistically and critically as you can. Look at some job listing sites to get a clearer picture of what kinds of work exist, what they require, and what they pay. Ask friends of your parents about the work they do and whether they like it. Think about where you want to live and what lifestyle you want to have when you're 30, for example, and find out what they cost. This is a big decision you're getting ready to make, so being as well informed and realistic as possible will increase your odds of choosing a path that will make you happy in the long run. I think it's great that you reached out to the forum for advice -- that shows you are taking this decision seriously, really thinking about it, and trying to make an informed decision. Stick with that way of doing things and you'll do well in whatever path you choose in life.

Btw, you might already have this, but just in case you haven't seen it, here's a page with some info on public university costs in your state:
College Costs

And here's some info on various trade schools in your state:
Illinois Trade Schools | Vocational Schools in Illinois

Thanks so much fl limits and I have seen one of those pages but thanks for providing me with such information . I do really feel overwhelmed since I am trying not to stay home for too long . Although my parents support me I want to be independent . I already have bills to pay and I don't get much aid from community school either . So that's why I help dad in the mean time and get $300 sometimes up to $450 if I work hard . 6 days a week , luckily get paid in cash.

There's really nothing that I can add to FLimits' replies. There is a lot of great advice in many of these posts, but I personally agree with FLimits. I'm one of those guys who happen to be in that segment where college just wasn't for me....not only was i not interested, but other "life events" occurred.
Therefore, I've DRIVEN into my own children to get good grades (by good I mean very good) and a degree....not just "a" degree, but something they will enjoy. I've also driven that same thing into my 2 stepsons (still in progress). My son is in his soph. Yr in computer engineering at Purdue (state school and on scholarship). My daughter will be following shortly in a field that suits her...and then stepsons. ;) I will agree that money wasted on college for a degree that you stick on a wall and doesn't mean jack to most people is a true "waste". But, if you are going into a field such as comp. Engineering, let's face it, it's not a run of the mill degree. Knowledge is power, and even though it's an ever changing field, showing 4 yrs of study in the major goes far for those who are betting that you can keep it up.
Whatever path you choose scrapper, make it count, make good "life" decisions and keep your head up!!!!

I once worked in a printing factory and an opening came up for an apprentice machine operator. I applied for it (worked there over 5 years) and the company ended up hiring a tax accountant off the street for the job, just cause he had a degree and I didn't. The degree he had, had nothing to do with the job but it was a "piece of paper". The man did not even own any "work clothes" just dress slacks and white shirts, and you should have seen him with his own new toolbox. He didn't know which end of a wrench was which.

Sometimes it's just a matter of having a degree, no matter what for. The prospective bosses can see that you made an effort to better yourself.

The best advice I can give is your working career is for the long term. Without a degree, down the road you may find you will hit ceiling on how far you can go in the business world. However, that doesn't mean you need a degree 4 years after high school. You could set a goal like have it before 30 while working and gaining valuable experience. And start with a 2 year degree. Personally, I have a computer engineering degree and an MBA and I scrap as a fun hobby. What I have witnessed in my engineering career is many technicians who could run circles around younger engineers, but without a 4 year degree, can't move out of the tech labor grade.

TheScrapper1, you stated "since i am not a citizen here I can't have much financial aid". If you have a green card I would suggest going into the military. I went into the military myself at age 21 to learn a trade. The pay and benefits are pretty good now. You could learn some useful skills and train for a high paying job. You would also be able to go to college with most or all of the tuition paid. Than you could work on citizenship if that is what you wanted. When you got out of the service you would have veteran benefits and a college bill and job experience. David

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Originally Posted by freonjoe

Most skilled trades make above average wages. Flaggers only make that king of money when they are working a davis-bacon job.

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now in the state of ohio you have to actually have a certification to flag on any odot ( state ) heavy highway job...it is a 20 hour class, and you must have your 10 hour osha card and your stp card before you can take the flaggers class...i belong to the local labors union # 83 around here...i have been a member around 15 years...

when i started we did not even have an apprenticeship program for the trade..now days there is an apprenticeship program..it seems like every year i have to take a new class to get certified to do something that we have been doing for years..i think the training is a good thing..plus we generally get paid for any classes we have to take...

it seems like anymore you have to have a certification for anything you do..i think it is for companies insurances more than anything

I'll try to keep myself from getting into any kind of rant here. I know everyone's situation is different but if there's a way to get at least a 4 year degree without burdening yourself in the future that's the best way to go, and as has been said, especially a degree in a high paying field. My sister-in-law got a degree in english and while it allows her to get jobs that I couldn't get if only for the fact she has a degree and I don't, it's not one that will generate high pay. Although farther down the line it might since it will allow her to more easily move up the ranks in whatever job she has. I don't have a degree and it's by far one of the stupidest things I did (or didn't do) in my entire life. WHat makes it worse is I did have my tuition covered and I squandered it.

Another option though if the cost is an issue, try to find a job that offers tuition reimbursement. There are many employers out there that offer this even if they don't advertise it. For example I worked for one of the largest insurance companies and although I was able to get in the door without a degree, I had a ceiling on how far up I could go without a degree. However, this same company offered tuition reimbursement and covered up to $5250 a year (including books!). That may not sound like much but it can pay for quite a bit if you start out at a community college for all your basic courses that you would need anyway (just make sure the credits transfer).

Thanks guys for all your good advice . And wadar , I am not a citizen but I am a resident , since I applied for it when I was still I'm high school I've spend more than half my life here in the US . It is a great country but I was not trying to get into any military at all . I'm overwhelmed by the trauma some suffer after coming back . I'm just too of a chicken for that .
And collector I know State Farm does that with their insurance agents they get full tuition or reimbursement for college mainly community college so it covers pretty much all of it .

Somehow I missed the part earlier where you said you're not a citizen. Do you have "permanent resident" status -- i.e., a green card? If so, I think you still qualify for the lower in-state tuition at your state universities. I know that's the case in some states. Anyway, if you don't have a green card, that would mean you can't get a job either! So I'm guessing and hoping that you managed to get a green card, although I know it can be difficult to do. Do you know if you're able to receive financial aid (discounted loans or scholarships)? Have you tried applying?

I can tell you're worried about the cost of college, and I don't blame you, but please don't make your decision based only on that. That would be equivalent to saying you just were never given a choice, but you do have choices, and they're very important ones because they're going to shape the rest of your life. So if you actually do want to get a college education but are just worried about how to pay for it, we should be talking about how to accomplish that, not whether or not you should go. Everything we've said here has, I think, been based on the premise that you feel ambivalent about going to college because you don't think you'll need it for certain career paths. If it's something you want to do, though, you can find a way to do it. A lot of people work their way through school. In fact, working and going to school will give you a lot of advantages. You'll get more out of both your job and your education, you'll have a better resume than your peers, and you'll be a thousand times more mature than them.

Yes I do have a work permit and a social , a driving license I am basically a temporary resident while time tells if I will get a chance to aplly for citizenship .
And Fl limits I have checked for fafsa but people like us can't get any aid from that . I have gotten mostly A"s some B"s with a GPA of 5.146 unweighted in high school . And managed to get a scholarship which gives me $500 each semester but I feel like that's not enough . Out of 8 that I applied for I only got 1 . I bombed my act and got a 23 on it as well . For the moment I am working and hoping to go in next semester and continue in HVAC . Book costs + class cost + tools .

I would suggest making your own career. There are many ways to learn, there are many types of degrees, certificates and the like. If you work for yourself it dosent matter what degree you have, only knowledge and experience. An example of this is are the ewaste/ computer repair/ support companies. They compete directly with corporations that have traditional employees but may not have the same "schooling". Education is vastly diffrent than schooling. You can take any class you want from most schools, community colledges and tech schools. If you make your own career or job you can tailor your education for knowledge and not worry about the degree.

What do you mean you "only" got one scholarship?!? That's fantastic. Most people get ZERO scholarships! So you should pat yourself on the back for that. You also have a good GPA, and that's a better predictor of success in college than a high standardized test score. Believe me, the admissions people know that; they will choose someone with higher grades and a somewhat weaker test score over someone with crummy grades and a great test score. Anyway, if you think your ACT score doesn't reflect your abilities, just take it again. Tons of people do those tests more than once. A lot of them get tutored to take it, too. It's a big business!

Listen, seriously, you're young and have nothing but opportunity ahead of you. I'll just repeat what I said before: Think carefully about what you want in life, and make your decision based on that, not on anything else. If you know where you want to go, you can get there. If you walk away from something important that you actually want, you will be short-changing yourself, and later you will always wonder about the "other" life you might have had. If what you really want is to study a trade and not go to college, and you are confident that this is the work you want to do from now on, then that's great -- go for it. If that's actually just a compromise you're thinking about making because you're worried about the cost of college, then it's time to think outside the box and find some smart solutions. You've taken your studies seriously so far, you've applied for scholarships...so you don't sound like someone who has no interest in going to college, but then again, maybe you just did it because that's what you' were expected to do.

Anyway, you asked for some advice, and you've gotten lots of it from an incredibly diverse group of people. I hope that has helped some. And if you need more help, just ask for it. We may not know you personally, but everybody here wants the best for you. To me, you sound like a great, hardworking, thoughtful guy who will be successful in whatever you choose. So choose what's best for you. That's your privilege at this age, and that's what your parents want for you. I'm sure they've worked very hard to make a good life here. Why do you think they did that? Later, when you have more responsibilities, you'll have plenty of compromises to make. Now is not the time.

I have a box full of degrees, graduation certificates, and recognitions of accomplishments, Somewhere I don't even know where they are at anymore. You can literally line the $h*t house wall with them. What really counts at the end of the day, do you feel good about what you do! Getting your H.S. diploma is big accomplishment and you should always be proud of that accomplishment. You are just getting started, keep going to school, seek education wherever you can get it. A tech job is good, but any work is better than none. With a high tech job as many have already said will require a degree, that degree will not get you a job. Sure it will be a requirement, a starter, I have literally hired 100's of people. In high tech and low tech, radar techs to ditch diggers. What I look for is how a person caries him or herself, how they communicate is a big item. You can have all the qualifications on paper, but if you can't work well with others, you well not succeed at anything. I wish you all the luck, remember you want a complete package!

Thanks again FLimits , and all the guys still giving me advice . For taking the time of your day to get me motivated to better myself and not give up . And so I plan on doing that , and I have always though a degree will only get you so far and it's mainly experience and how well you react and work alongside other people .

It's getting tougher to find people that want to learn skilled trades like carpentry, HVAC, refrigeration etc. If you could find someone to provide some on the job training and learn a trade that pays well, you should be able to write your own ticket.

Four year or more degree may be great for some but there's a lot of people out there that graduate owing six figures in student loans and can't find a job to save their life.

With the economy/employment situation the way it is, and the over abundance of degreed people from here and imported from country's like India and Pakistan I wonder how long it will be before Mc Donalds or wall mart require a degree to get one of their 29 hour a week minimum wage jobs.