Everything we scrap and recycle where does it end up? Does it all go to China? Do we have plants here to re process this stuff?
Printable View
Everything we scrap and recycle where does it end up? Does it all go to China? Do we have plants here to re process this stuff?
My steel shred ends up here at Steel Dynamics, according to the info their the 5th largest in the US. Omni Source and Lewis and a few other yards sell direct to the foundry. Recycling here in the USA
http://www.stld-cci.com/images/colum...02%20mills.jpg
Where does it go to, after the foundry? ; )Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanic688
lets be realistic here. Most of the end product ends up here(steel, iron,tn etc) but after a trip to china, Malaysia, or India. our laws and regulations do not allow a profitable steel manufacturing operation here. as is the same with mining, oil or any other essential product. it is my understanding that even Cadillacs are now made in china.
Kinda funny the plastic and glass bottles we put in the recycle bins need to leave the country just for us to buy them again! As far as steel goes why cant we start up the old steel mills and re process this stuff? Where was the EPA when we were making everything here?
Pandoras box is already open now. even IF manufacturing could comply with epa and make a profit here, they have been forced ,in order to survive, move to serfdoms like China and India. once all the new regs (government) make this country compliant with China and India. manufacturing will return.
Thanks here to Wiki; I personally see them making/shipping I beams and rails.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear
Quote:
Steel Dynamics, Inc. (SDI) is a steel producer based in Fort Wayne, Indiana and the fifth largest producer of carbon steel products in United States. Over sixty percent of the company’s steel shipments are flat-rolled sheet steel and the remainder is "long products" (bars and beams) and fabricated products. SDI is among the most profitable American steel companies in terms of profit margins and operating profit per ton.
SDI was founded in 1993 and began production at its Butler, Indiana, Flat Roll Mill in 1996. The Flat Roll Division’s finishing facilities at Butler and at Jeffersonville, Indiana, produce pickled, cold-rolled, galvanized, and painted flat-roll steel.
In 2007 SDI acquired The Techs, three galvanizing plants in Pittsburgh that coat flat-rolled steel.
Quote:
the company will install what officials described as a “state-of-the-art” heat-treating system in Columbia City.
The system will allow Steel Dynamics to produce up to 350,000 tons of standard strength and head-hardened plain, carbon steel rails for the railroad industry.Steel Dynamics’ new process will allow it to manufacture 320-foot-long rails, as compared to the 80-foot rails made by the company’s domestic competitors.
Longer rails require fewer welds per mile, which reduces costs and the chances of weld-related problems.“Our rail customers have encouraged us to expand our product offerings to not only include head-hardened rail, but in these longer rail strings, thereby enabling our customers to reduce their cost of rail maintenance and replacement,” The steelmaker employs more than 6,500 in facilities including five steel mills, six steel-processing plants and more than 70 metals-recycling locations.
Not trying to knock you at all, Mech, but it still doesn't show where they go. Who is using flat plate steel? Shipbuilders, Where are Shipbuilders? Mostly in China, India, Germany, etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Mechanic688
Who is building new rails ? Look around, the rails nearest me were built in 1877, you can look down them and wonder how it holds a train on the track, and no longer need to wonder why the trains go so slow. Not only will 320 ft rails allow less welds, but much faster construction, as far as the rails themselves, 4 times faster which is just what China and other foregn countries want, more rails, faster
That's what gave us an edge before, during, and after WW2, was our transportation system(rails) and our manufacturing capabilities. Where is the majority of it gone, all overseas. We've become like a train wreck that's already happened, just waiting for the crash, and we don't have much left to hold us together. It's rather sad to take a good look around at what's going on here and abroad
Somebody mentioned earlier about "when the jobs come back". It reminded me of that Bruce Springsteen tune, "My Home Town" I think was the name of it, said "those jobs are leavin boys, and they ain't coming back"
It's not really political, but goes to the core of America, nobody seems to care anymore, they just wanna ride the train
If you would set outside the plant on any given day you could count a loaded semi leaving the plant about every 10 minutes, now if it's going overseas like you suspect then they would put it on a flat rail car and ship it to a port and not on a semi. Those semi loads are staying here in country, heck we're building new high speed rail lines all across our country and that's what the long rails are for. I used to drive the main highway back and forth and see these trucks loaded down with steel coming out of there.
Just one reason that I use the scrap yard that I do, I know where mine goes. Not everyone can say that. But yes there is a broader problem than this.
haha, a 320 foot rail on a semi? ; )
We still build high rise buildings with "I" beams and warehouses also, we still make gardrails for our highways. I think we still make gardrails, I might be wrong on that one. We have a shipbuilding company here in Tampa and I think one in Jacksonvile.
I rarely post, but I lurk here nearly every day. I feel I need to comment on this thread. As with most things that one reads on the internet there is often a bit of truth sprinkled in with conjecture and opinion. I am by no means an expert, but I do have experience and knowledge of the subject at hand that is quite contrary to some of what has been posted here.
I grew up in western PA, the heart of steel-making in the United States. I know several people who have decades of experience in the industry as well as the industries that support the steel mills. While in college I worked for a very large company that provided support to the mills. After college I worked in the industry in a management role. I left the steel industry roughly 10 years ago, but still have several close friends in the industry. In addition, I follow the industry in the financial markets and try to stay informed for investment purposes.
I'll try not to ramble too much here.... Is the steel industry as strong as it was for most of the 20th century? Absolutely not. However, it is much stronger than it was 10 to 15 years ago. Saying that the steel mills can't operate profitably when compared to China is a misinformed statement. Can we compete with the Chinese on labor cost? On an hourly wage basis no, its not even close (although the gap is rapidly closing). However, on a productivity basis the US mills are extremely competitive as our tonnage produced relative to labor hours consumed is much higher. Have the US mills struggled due to stiffer regulations than those imposed in places like China? Certainly, but that's not the reason the steel industry has recently gone through some dark years. The United States steel industry has nobody to blame but themselves for mismanaging their business and not investing in new technologies. Fortunately, the last 10 years as seen a dramatic shift in that mindset. The company I used to work for has been extremely profitable recently. There's a facility in western PA that is currently constructing 1.16 billion dollar melt shop. That's B as in Billion. Let's just say that business is good. Furthermore, as someone who knows quite well the health hazards associated with steel making I am a firm believer that our environmental regulations are a good thing. Take a look at some pictures of Pittsburgh or other rust belt cities from the 1970s and ask yourself if you would like to live there. China's citizens would probably love to have some cleaner air to breath. Take a look at the current air quality index for Beijing.
Its been a long time since the US was the dominant player in the global steel market. I don't know the current statistics, but when I was in the industry the two largest global steel corporations were based outside of the US. I would be surprised if many folks could guess were numbers 1 and 2 were located. The number 1 producer at that time was based in France. #2 was in Japan. #3 was US Steel.
As far as our steel going oversees I can only tell you what I know. I can't speak to the carbon side of the industry as my experience was in stainless. One of my positions at the mill was to act as in interface between sales and manufacturing. I knew our customer list well and I can't think of a single customer that wasn't based in the United States. The steel was produced domestically and consumed domestically. For reference, we shipped over 20,000 tons/month of cold roll.
The industry I've worked in for the last 10 years is starting to change its tune on China. China is still a threat, but they're also becoming a huge opportunity for sales growth. Wages in China have been growing at better than 10% per year and that trend is expected to continue. China is no longer the lowest cost producer in the world. Their wages and middle class are growing rapidly. In fact, China's growing middle class has several economists predicting that they will soon become a net importer rather than an exporter. My current industry already ships vast quantities of raw materials to China with little concern of the finished product returning to the US to compete with our finished product as a huge chunk of what China produces today stays in China for their own consumption. In addition to these forces rising transportation costs and a lack of control are causing many US manufactures to return their operations to the good old USA.
What I've written here is certainly not meant to be all inclusive or indicative of every situation. It is however, based on firsthand experience of the subject at hand.
Lets put it like this if you see it going in a rail car a majority of the time its headed to a domestic steel mill near you. Most of you that live in port cities will see your scrap exported depending on domestic price. There are still a large amount of mills and foundries in the USA. I think the last count of Basic Oxygen Furnaces inside the USA is 17 or 18 still in operation. Mini mills are making them obsolete. We still have 300,000 plus miles of rail installed inside the USA. Think Nucor and SDI. The majority of steel produced inside the USA is consumed within 75 miles of where it is produced. Mittal steel mill in Cleveland Ohio is the most efficient mill in the WORLD. They can produce more steel per man hour then any mill in the world. New steel mills click here
New US steel plant nears site selection - FT.com
New $900 million tubular steel plant planned for region - Longview News-Journal: Longview News-Journal: Local Business
Left for Extinct, a Steel Plant Rises in Ohio - WSJ.com
New Steel Mill Taking Shape In Limestone County | WHNT.com — Huntsville News & Weather from WHNT Television News19 HD
There are also upgrades being made at Republic, Lorain plant, ohio and Timken steel, canton ohio. The steel industry is making a comeback.
Bear, The still produce rail all over america. There is track being replaced all over america as we speak. Steel Wheels on Steel rail is going to cause it wear and once it gets so worn it has to be replaced. Remember Americas goods are being transported by rail. Chemicals and explosives travel over these tracks. They have to be in 100 percent working condition which means they have to be replaced. There are also still ship building operations all over the coasts. I was in mobile, AL this summer there whole downtown is being taken over by a ship building company. I can't remember there name but there buildings were huge, huge, huge, and new. They had ship pieces all over the place waiting to be pieced together.
I should also put this statistic in 2002 there were 44 different steel mills inside the USA in bankruptcy. Tons of consolidation has occurred over the last 10 years.
I couldn't agree more with what Pistone wrote. The steel industry is definitely making a comeback and consolidation has most certainly occurred. The number of mills that have either closed or changed ownership over the past 15 years is staggering. Ownership if the mill I worked in changed hands 3 times in less than 5 years, but that facility is practically printing money today. Mini mills have changed the game. Mini mills rely on domestic scrap.
I don't know where your steel ends up personally, but I worked for Tcims as a subcontractor for the steel mill. Its right in claymont delaware. We bought steel from all the surrounding yards. Thats how I learned the difference between our different types of steel (turnings, 5 foot (p&s), shred, cast iron( which we called beach iron), Heavymelt (HMS), and tin bush)
we always say we are tuning our cars into tin cans :)
For shipbuilding, we're not in the top ten shipbuilding nations, we don't even have a single top ten company
• Largest shipbuilding nations by compensated gross tonnage 2011 | Statistic
For rails we're number two in moving freight, almost half as much as China moves, but not even a contender on passenger charts(but the US freight figure is from 2007, I think it probly hasn't improved much, if any)
Rail usage statistics by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In steel production we're third, even behind Japan, but per capita not even in the top ten
World Steel Association - World Steel in Figures 2012
that said:according to Forbes, 6.9 Mllion containers of scrap were shipped in 2009 making scrap the #1 bulk export, for a total of 65 + Billion dollars making it the #1 product in the trade deficit reduction
Pertaining to the question posed in this thread, and some of the replies, olddude, that could very well be the saddest fact of all.Quote:
Originally Posted by olddude
Scrap as our #1 export.
Using it to pay off debts that we really shouldn't have in the first place, I guess would be topping on the cake?
yepers, definitely says something about the state of things in America today.
heres another fact that will make your eyes cross. in $ guess the #1 export was last year,
Look at Germany and Japan and how much they pay for labor and tell me how they can have all kinds of manufacturing and we can't. The steel making areas in the US (my city included) used to be poluted as hell, these days Chinese cities are like that and worse. The EPA made it so the air is mostly breathable and local rivers don't catch on fire anymore.
The US steel industry didn't put much money into keeping their plants modern after WW2 and suffered from it causing the great restructuring. These days the plants seem to specialize and make some money but are nowhere near the size they used to be when supplying the whole world with steel.
I also noticed quite a few chemical/steel plants are foreign owned and they do invest money into their facilities. Investers based in the US would rather pump and dump companies instead of the hard job of keeping them profitable long term.
I was guessing oil. It's actually machinery. Oil is third.Quote:
Originally Posted by olddude
This won't likely say where it's going, but might speak some about why it isn't staying here. Tonight's PBS Need To Know
Full Episodes | Need to Know | PBS
From my experience the highest quality material stays in the USA, extrusions, clips, alloys, wheels, bare bright, #1 copper, red brass and even some sheet. This is because these are low labor intensive materials and can easily be processed. The standards for US mills are very strict, so the so-so sheet produced and iffy #1 copper will be sent overseas. Electric motors, wire (except premium no attachment #1 wire-which is suprisingly a difficult package to produce when you're talking 40-42k lbs). Yellow brass-mainly because zinc and steel contaminates on 40 percent of brass bought and sold through yards. China is the largest consumer, but India and surprisingly Pakistan have been emerging as larger consumers I've noticed in the past year.
I work for a very small steel fabrication company (less than 20 people total) we get steel from at least 4 different suppliers (about 3 trucks a week) 2 for flat steel one for bar/round/tube material and one for special stuff (perferated, expanded) we make parts for an exhaust company, 2 lawn mower manufacturers, stock car builder (dirt track) and a store fixture builder (and others) and there are a lot of bigger operations within 100 miles.
Plenty of steel gets used in the USA more would get used if people would "look at the tag" and get MADE IN THE USA. Personally, I don't like to buy the same thing 12 times when I can spend an extra couple bucks the first time and buy it once.
Being more of a non-ferrous guy, I can only speak to that. The bulk of aluminum I purchase is processed here in Tn and made into ingots that are sold domestically to numerous die casters. A lot of the low grade items (electric motors, sealed units, starters, alternators,etc) are all sold export.