Serious Board / Pricing discussion

I want to open up some serious discussion and would like the large buyers on this forum chime in a lot if they could.

I want to bring up what is brought up on this forum more often then anything and that is removing parts from a board to "Maximize" profit.

Sure you can squeek a few extra cents here and a few their but is this hurting the industry as a whole?

Do buyers of circuit boars and other electronic junk now build into their pricing knowing that parts will or can or will be stripped?

While doing this and squeaking a few extra cents are we only hurting ourselves in the long run and other people that don't do this?

Here's an example of what i came across the other day. I had a guy bring over 22 pounds of finger cars. He said the ends were not cut. At first glance they looked like they weren't. Well if i had dumped them into the box i would have not seen what i saw. As i was hand moving them each one had about 1/2 an inch of gold cut off the back. It was a very clean cut to so it was hard to tell. I brought this to his attention and he said he was working on getting clean cut fingers and didn't think if he cut off a small bit rather than the whole thing that it would matter. Well we ended up settling on a price and he said he wont be trying that again unless he cuts the whole finger.

In the old days people used to shave and drill gold coins. It got so bad that the US mint had to start reeding the edges of the coins. So there have been scammers for a long time. I think if you don't know the seller well, you have to treat them as suspect until proven otherwise.

Great topic. Clearly needed to address ongoing posts.

great thread: I brought this up to my primary buyer and have posted about this before.

I am a moralist when it comes to business, I am diligent and clean my boards as much as possible with out removing value.

I used to remove the bracket from finger cards, even after being told I didn't have to but still got the same price as those not so diligent after a while I quit doing it and I feel guilty every time I throw one in the box.

I suggested that the buyers do a photo shoot or video of what premium trimmed boards are. and got no response. lets face the facts. me and others that are concerned about the products we send to buyers are subsidizing those who aren't. just like a store, they all charge a premium on every item to cover theft, you pay that so they are forcing you to subsidize the thieves.

in this case we are subsidizing those who are either not properly educated, lazy, or just plain cheats. my .02

Good topic and good comments.

My $0.02.

I think this comes down to developing a good relationship with your buyer. Much of this could be nipped if buyers offered a grading system of each supply we sent them. For example, you send in a box of boards the buyer who sorts them could quickly mark feedback to how they were prepped via a 5-star system. A record of numerous positive feedback could give the buyer an incentive to give us higher per pound prices.

olddude people do this with all kinds of scrap. Rocks in cans, fill up hot water tanks before turning them in, plastic in copper tubes. It happens and the price they give covers the cheats and scammers...

hobo I fully understand that as I stated but it is upside down like the world today is what im saying.

the good should not have to pay for the bad, either the good should be rewarded or the bad should be punished. but as the world has learned there is no longer reward or punishment for ones own behavior. it has become accepted to just make all pay, it's easier, but that doesn't make it right.

I would like to see the buyers set a standard like #1 steal prepared, and #1 not prepared

#1 prep e waste and #2 prep. # 2 gets downgraded say, .25 or .50 a LB and that is added to #1 prep.

I understand the problem with volume buyers who sell to bigger volume buyers. my 70 # of good grade stuff gets mixed into 2000 # of not so good grade stuff. when the refiner refines it he is interested only in the end result and pays for that end result.

a while back I tried to get interest in a sellers grading system, so that buyers could know what to count on from a seller and offer prices accordingly. I still think that would be a plus for all concerned.

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Originally Posted by olddude

great thread: I brought this up to my primary buyer and have posted about this before.

I am a moralist when it comes to business, I am diligent and clean my boards as much as possible with out removing value.

I used to remove the bracket from finger cards, even after being told I didn't have to but still got the same price as those not so diligent after a while I quit doing it and I feel guilty every time I throw one in the box.

I suggested that the buyers do a photo shoot or video of what premium trimmed boards are. and got no response. lets face the facts. me and others that are concerned about the products we send to buyers are subsidizing those who aren't. just like a store, they all charge a premium on every item to cover theft, you pay that so they are forcing you to subsidize the thieves.

in this case we are subsidizing those who are either not properly educated, lazy, or just plain cheats. my .02

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Olddude...I still take all of them off. I even sent one of the buyers a breakdown to think about. I do not have my notes but I think it was about 20-25 brackets = lb of steel. (will do it again and post results) how many thousands of those are in a gaylord? and how much better would that pay being refined if it did not have all that steel? would like to have those answers and YES... we who do that, go the extra mile to pull the heat sinks, metal brackets, and batteries, etc... SHOULD get a better price than joe get-r-dun who just tosses it all in and gets the same payout. (rant over) BroJer

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Originally Posted by drozenski

Do buyers of circuit boars and other electronic junk now build into their pricing knowing that parts will or can or will be stripped?

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Now there's an interesting question. It will be interesting to see if there is a reply.

I just sent to one of our buyers some medium grade boards that I had received with inductors and small transformers ripped off. I had obtained them for free, and that's the way they came to me. I forgot all about it until you asked that question, and had grouped them with the other medium grade boards. Ugh.

From what see the OP of this thread asked 3 direct and serious questions to the buyers of this forum. Only one , freonjoe, (who I think is as honest as the day is long and just real good guy in general) is the only buyer to even respond to drozenski so far. Come on SMF buyers. He wants honest answers to honest questions. Why aren't you all responding to him? Like he said, "Chime in".

Great question and one I've pondered myself.
I'm pretty new here and new to escrapping. Spent a good number of hours here reading posts and researching both what is 'acceptable' and what is 'preferred'. What/how to be rewarded with the best return. I haven't really found solid answers to many of my wonderings. I've seen a question asked about removing transformers or brackets from some boards, and seen replies like "Why would you do that when you're getting paid by the pound".. I'm another one that would take the extra time to remove specific items if it were rewarded and I knew exactly what was preferred.
I for another would appreciate insight from the buyers. THANKS!

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Originally Posted by grouchyolddude

Great question and one I've pondered myself.
I'm pretty new here and new to escrapping. Spent a good number of hours here reading posts and researching both what is 'acceptable' and what is 'preferred'. What/how to be rewarded with the best return. I haven't really found solid answers to many of my wonderings. I've seen a question asked about removing transformers or brackets from some boards, and seen replies like "Why would you do that when you're getting paid by the pound".. I'm another one that would take the extra time to remove specific items if it were rewarded and I knew exactly what was preferred.
I for another would appreciate insight from the buyers. THANKS!

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if you have enough volume, most buyers would probably negotiate a price for extra clean boards or whatever.

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Originally Posted by MattInTheHat

if you have enough volume, most buyers would probably negotiate a price for extra clean boards or whatever.

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True as that may be, the "would probably" part still has me mystified. I really wish we could get an across the board answer. Yes, I know I can ask my buyer. But sometimes it can be something I never considered because I just didn't know any different.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm starting to think we won't see any of the buyers piping in on this thread. Nothing against them if they don't; to the contrary I can understand why they might be reluctant to do so.

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I've seen a question asked about removing transformers or brackets from some boards, and seen replies like "Why would you do that when you're getting paid by the pound".

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I think that answer applies to the low grade boards as there is not any transformers on motherboards and finger cards.

I've seen that with the higher grade boards as well. The question of "why would you do that when you're getting paid by the pound" was asked by someone who is now "on vacation," and related to both motherboards and finger boards, if I remember correctly.

I think maybe the answer is to have the smaller operations (buyers) chime in here. the problem is most of them are not set up to process things like boards but only premium hi content stuff.

I am a local buyer here in knoxville and I do pay a "premium" for boards that are clean and ready to be shipped.......On some stuff I make as little as 20% (like Mboards) but on other stuff I make much more........Not sure if this helps but there you go

I have a 2 tiered price list on motherboards and finger cards. Clean (ready to ship) and dirty. There is a fairly big price difference between the two as there needs to be a penalty for laziness.

I'll ask the million dollar question. What's the price per pound that you guys would like to see a buyer pay for fingercards without brackets?

If everyone is buying them with metal brackets on them Boardsort.com buys Gold Tipped Connector ends by the pound. then they (the buyers) may be able to ship them that way to the end market

easy answer: lets say $3.50 a deduction of .50 per lb for cards with brackets. ad that .50 to the normal avg price of $4 so the price for prepared is $4.50. This will do several things.

! reduce buyers labor cost
penalise lazy seller
reward prpoer sellers

in a short time the seller will have to do nothing but weigh and transfer parts to his shipping boxes. how much labor, ins and tax cost will that save the buyers.

this would be a win win for all except those who don't care about the quality of their work

OK here's my 2 cents. If an e-waste buyer can sell his finger cards (for an example) with the steel brackets on them and can get the same price with or with out the bracket then why would you have to take the bracket off? The same aplies to mother boards, if your buyer gets the same price with or without the batteries why take the batteries off? (unless you have a buyer for the batteries) I just check with my buyer and if he wants something off then I take it off and if he says leave it on then I leave it on. Another example is transformers on low grade boards, my buyer said I can leave them on and sence I get .35 for low grade boards and I get .35 for transformers at the scrap yard I just leave them on and I get the same price and my buyer gets more wieght in his low grade gaylord. I think it's going to depend on your buyer and how he sells to his buyer, so always check things like this out with your buyer.

Ill give you how I see it. My refiner pays on gold silver platinum palladium and copper. They also charge a per pound charge for a lot charge on weight they receive. So if I send them 2000 lbs I get charged $2000 right off the bat to process that load plus a percentage of the metals recovered. So if I ship 2000 pounds of finger cards with the brackets on them then im paying them to process the steel that they are not going to pay me for. Now if i send that same 2000 with no steel im going to get more of a payday because im going to have more boards. Same goes with cutting the little part of of the finger cards. It might not make much a difference if its just a couple. But if you multiply that by 2000 pounds. You will see the difference in the payout. Now as far as im concerned i inspect material as I get it and grade it accordingly.

Now as far as pricing things into groups. I do this with my drives. For example i pay $2 for a 40gb and 80gb IDE drive but they sell for different prices. They also sell at different rates. So I block drives into size groups just so there isnt 500 different prices for a difference in $.25 to $.50 It all evens out in the wash.

Hope this helps to clarify where I come from.

Personally I think you guys are too focused on what you percieve to be the "right way" of doing things. If the buyer pays top dollar for cards with brackets, why take them off? I know YOU think that it is a better product with them off, but obviously the buyer doesnt. As an anology, I used to have a sheetrock guy that would sweep up his mess after doing an install. I didnt pay him any more for doing it because it was already in the contract with the painter to clean up before he started spraying paint. I never understood why he kept wasting time doing it when someone else would. As the customer, I just chalked it up to a guy having a few screws loose, thinking he is being an example to the rest of the world. The wasted hours he could have spent working on other jobs, being with his family, etc. will never be recovered. The painter wasnt going to lower his price if the sheetrock guy did the work because it was never done to his standards anyway, so he would always have to go back through the house.

All this talk about "lazy" scrappers misses the point of following directions. If you choose to do something unnecessarily because of OCD tendencies, maybe some counseling is needed? But please dont get all self-righteous on people who simply follow the directives of the buyer and choose to use that saved time furthering their business elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by shendog

Personally I think you guys are too focused on what you percieve to be the "right way" of doing things. If the buyer pays top dollar for cards with brackets, why take them off? I know YOU think that it is a better product with them off, but obviously the buyer doesnt. As an anology, I used to have a sheetrock guy that would sweep up his mess after doing an install. I didnt pay him any more for doing it because it was already in the contract with the painter to clean up before he started spraying paint. I never understood why he kept wasting time doing it when someone else would. As the customer, I just chalked it up to a guy having a few screws loose, thinking he is being an example to the rest of the world. The wasted hours he could have spent working on other jobs, being with his family, etc. will never be recovered. The painter wasnt going to lower his price if the sheetrock guy did the work because it was never done to his standards anyway, so he would always have to go back through the house.

All this talk about "lazy" scrappers misses the point of following directions. If you choose to do something unnecessarily because of OCD tendencies, maybe some counseling is needed? But please dont get all self-righteous on people who simply follow the directives of the buyer and choose to use that saved time furthering their business elsewhere.

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Personally, I commend a man that wants to go the extra mile and cleans up after himself...EVEN if it may be passed on to the next guy. Says a lot about his character and integrity.

All of us here want to deal with the best buyer we can. I believe there are some of us here, who want to be the best sellers. Hence, we want to send a good product, that will benefit the buyer, give him the best return possible, so in turn, we can get the best return possible. Some of us CARE about what we do and want to work with integrity and a higher standard.

So, I think it is a misdiagnoses, as I do not think it has anything to do with OCD tendencies! I think it has more to do... with what kind of people we want to be!

my 2 my 2 my 2 my 2 my 2 my 2 my 2 :) BroJer

I hear what you are saying BroJer, but you have to understand that your definition of "what kind of man I want to be" can be interpreted a million ways by a million different people. For instance, when you leave a building after picking up a load of computers, do you carry a broom and sweep the entrace of dirt/dust/debris that you may have tracked in? Do you carry Windex and a roll of paper towel to wipe off the fingerprints from the glass door you opened 15 times? Some people might do those things because it defines "the type of man they want to be". I'm not knocking you or even the desire we all should have to clean up after ourselves, but just trying to focus on the bigger picture. If someone continues to take off the brackets on finger cards, and then keeps badgering the buyer about paying him more, is that not wasting the buyers time? Now he has to keep separate all of that material and hope to convince his buyer to pay him more. If you want to go over and above, just send your buyer a gift basket, paid for with the money you earned from the time spent NOT taking off the brackets. Personally, I think that anyone taking on the job of "scrapper" is a man already, because he has the desire to work for himself, make his own rules and support him and his family (no offense to the ladies). Scrapping is tough work, so i commend everyone on here that does it honestly and ethically. And yes, you should be neat and tidy, but that wasnt the point :)

My interpretation of the original post was more or less from a seller to buyer perspective on how the seller can get the maximum return.
Not so much as if I strip all the steel from a PCI card, does that make me a preferred customer, but more of will it get me more money? Also the issue of if I remove tantilum caps and copper transformers to sell elsewhere, will I still get the same pricing for my boards?

I am not a buyer on this site, but I do buy locally as many on here do. I think if the buyer is dealing directly with a refiner there probably should be a premium as you are increasing their PM/lb ratio substantially. But you are also creating more more catagories and more seperating work(operation costs). After reading all the posts on this thread I will definetly do extra for the guy that goes the extra mile. My .02
Great thread!!

I believe we buyers on here pay our best prices we are comfortable with. If any of us are working off of a margin that could even constitute a premium like that then WOW. I discuss how I need my material processed with each and every one of my customers and they are pretty much comfortable knowing that they are getting the best price I am willing to pay. Theres an old saying that fits this perfectly..."you dont get rewarded for doing what you are expected to do."Meaning that if you prepare your boards properly you should get what the price is nothing more and nothing less.

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Originally Posted by corona

I am new here and have spent the last week on here reading old posts, mainly on escrap. But it would make sense that by preparing your boards properly you should get a premium price for them. Like on finger cards maybe you should get an extra dollar per pound for removing the bracket and capacitors. Maybe none of the buyers here pay a premium but that dosent mean that they dont in other online outlets.

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I think that what some may not realize is that for people like me with a small business, most of it comes down to time. My buyer could offer 50 cents more per pound for removing the brackets and I probably wouldn't do it. It is too time consuming to go through pounds of them and take them off.

The other thing to think about is that you are removing steel that is paying you 4.00+ per pound.

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Originally Posted by AuburnEwaste

I think that what some may not realize is that for people like me with a small business, most of it comes down to time. My buyer could offer 50 cents more per pound for removing the brackets and I probably wouldn't do it. It is too time consuming to go through pounds of them and take them off.

The other thing to think about is that you are removing steel that is paying you 4.00+ per pound.

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I like that answer better than the stale "It's not worth my time" response. I like having choices. In my case (assuming you are talking about finger cards), I do remove the brackets since it's a quick and easy process. Of the things I choose to break down, I do it immediately instead of tossing it in a box and coming back to it. I think it's more efficient than handling the same thing twice. On the other hand, I don't break down hard drives unless I'm requested by the customer to destroy them.

Funny thing, though, is that I don't require my customers to take the brackets off finger boards. I'm also a small business and since I buy in smaller quantities than the big guys do, the brackets really don't add all that much weight. I just don't think it's worth it to make them jump through hoops for small lots.

You lose money by doing that. That's throwing money out the window. I think some of you guys need to focus on marketing/ advertising/ making your customers more happy rather than worrying so much about your buyers. If you focused on loOking for more Buisness, you would be so busy you wouldn't have time to worry about little metal brackets.

All depends on what the man sitting on top of the totem pole wants. If he pays the same with or without then that is how you buy them. Each buyer is different. All my boards get sent off exactly how they come out batteries and all. Only thing I remove is excessive steel from motherboards. Best thing to do is talk directly to your buyer and see what they have to say.

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Originally Posted by Mechanic688

I think that answer applies to the low grade boards as there is not any transformers on motherboards and finger cards.

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Mother boards generaly do not have a transformer but some finger cards do.

I just saw this thread. I know that when I purchase laptops, I certainly pay more for the ones that people do not pull the valuable parts off of. Until I had different prices, people would remove the battery and then sell me the battery separately.

As for the people that do not clean things, etc, I got so many people dropping off boards that could not be sold as they were and had to spend so much time cleaning them, it was one of the reasons I stopped buying them. Sort your boards, etc. A happy buyer will be your best friend.

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Sure you can squeek a few extra cents here and a few their but is this hurting the industry as a whole?

Do buyers of circuit boars and other electronic junk now build into their pricing knowing that parts will or can or will be stripped?

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The world-wide volume of electronic board processing has got to be giagantic. I can't believe that the end buyers are goining to be effected by the tiny, tiny percentage of total boards that are being picked over by scrappers.

So this is what it boils down to, if your buyer says to take the bracket off then take it off. If your buyer pays more with the bracket off than he does with the bracket on then you have to make the choice to take it off and get more money or leave it on and take less money. I'll go the extra mile for my buyer because he sends me leads on e-waste pick-ups and does other little things for me that most buyers wouldn't do. Just my .02