heres a tip for you scrappers

have you ever noticed sometimes your scrapyards heaps seem to only grow..now this is obvious to us lifelong scrappers but you new guys should see a corralation between the sizes of the scrapyards piles and the prices they pay...you can always tell when prices are down because they will not be selling only buying so their piles will get huge...this is a trick used by scrapyards to get the mills to higher their prices..when the prices are down and the mill ships out an order and the yards dont sell the mills are forced to raise their prices or they wont be able to meet their quota..so they are forced to raise prices..so heres a trick i have used in the past and it works great...when the yards are low i always sell just enough to cover my expenses..and pile the rest on my farm ground..of course its prepared already and im just waiting for the prices to recover..so if im at a customers place and they have say a 20 ton bridge platform and i quoted them 150 a ton..so i will sell 10 ton of it (bridge is plate and structural and on a bad day i get 340 a ton for it) so i will pay the guy his 3 grand...ill keep 400 for my time and then ill set on the rest until it gets back to the average price which is around 400-415 a ton for p and s..once the prices are up ill back the lugger box truck up and use the skidloader to load 15 ton on the truck and take it in and thats all pure profit...this only works if you dont need the money right now..we call it drowning the yard..because they are used to me bringing 150-200 ton of steel a month and when prices are down they struggle with that big a hit and i have it where they are calling me to make a delivery...

last winter i had them so desperate they offered to broker me through the mill so they would meet their quota with the mill and all they wanted was the 500 dollar freight that the mill pays for shipping it to them lol

You can't drown out a scrap yard there is no such thing. The mill is either buying or its not it all has to do with there order books. When the books are strong the price is up because they need to melt it and have to have a secured stock pile. When the books are showing signs of weakness the price drops. Hence we don't need your metal we can always find a seller at our desired price. The prices are down 30 on cut material this month with no orders being booked or minimal activity. Check out your local mill they have piles of scrap that need melted therefore they can afford to let it slide and sit idle. The mill just lost money on those piles and will make it up next month when they let it slide again in december and start buying slowly so it can drop again in Jan. Then they made there money on the product they have now and can break even or make a few bucks. When the price is climbing and they are clamoring for scrap to meet there melt schedule that is when you see the price go up and yards holding out to make the most amount on the product they have on the ground and incoming. The fatal mistake your yard made was booking an order to big and not having the product to fulfill the order. Remember the mills are pigs and can reject or outright cancel an order whenever they want for whatever reason they want. They know when the price is going up and when its going to down. To hold out would be silly and for yards with cash flow problems or not much cash on hand this would be suicide to hold out all the time and hope and pray the price is going to go up the next month. If we knew what the market was going to do each month I wouldn't be in the scrap industry I would be in vegas hegging my bets against the price each month. Not saying I know everything. I just work in a scrap yard every single day and have a little insight into whats going on.

you work in one...i OWN one lol.cut prices down 30...ask your top hauler how bad his prices are down if he says anywhere near 30 id be shocked..before i owned a yard i was a small time scrapper..then got big then opened a yard...but i never took a hit over 5 dollars when i was cutting and hauling..the more i produce the less i lose...they will make it up on someone else and kept me happy at the same time lol.this post shows me you know very little on the business side..sure you seem to know the basics but dig deep...im not saying as a small time scrapper..im talking the big yards holding out on the mills...i sell to mills by semi loads..of course thats only way to sell to them is train car or semi...big time yards most definately drown mills out...if a mill puts out an order and its not being met they have no choice but to up their prices...i give all sorts of different prices to different people..the farmers that come in get lowballed all to hell and they dont care they just want it off their land..i have had more then one person tell me they can sell it higher else where..i tell them to and they always come back..my biggest field scrapper who doesnt own a yard who just beats the brush brings me on average 80 ton a week...i usually make 10-20 bucks a ton off him..but i have way more small time people i make close to a hundred a ton off of then the big guys....i own everything outright and have the cash to hoard until i get the prices i want so its no big deal to me...but as a guy who deals with the mill daily..i have had more then one call of desperation from them...theres a reason the mill i goto makes me keep x amount of tons in the yard at all times to do business with them...but i dont have to do business with them as there are 3 mills in my area..im not going to argue about this but scrap prices do the same thing every year...towards winter they go down..because the yards are stockpiled from the part time scrappers from summer...then after the first snow the prices skyrocket..and usually stay high until feb..and then level off..and usually about that time is when the metals market surges..i have rarely seen both ferrous and non ferrous surge at the same time...

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Originally Posted by PistoneScrapProcessing

You can't drown out a scrap yard there is no such thing. The mill is either buying or its not it all has to do with there order books. When the books are strong the price is up because they need to melt it and have to have a secured stock pile. When the books are showing signs of weakness the price drops. Hence we don't need your metal we can always find a seller at our desired price. The prices are down 30 on cut material this month with no orders being booked or minimal activity. Check out your local mill they have piles of scrap that need melted therefore they can afford to let it slide and sit idle. The mill just lost money on those piles and will make it up next month when they let it slide again in december and start buying slowly so it can drop again in Jan. Then they made there money on the product they have now and can break even or make a few bucks. When the price is climbing and they are clamoring for scrap to meet there melt schedule that is when you see the price go up and yards holding out to make the most amount on the product they have on the ground and incoming. The fatal mistake your yard made was booking an order to big and not having the product to fulfill the order. Remember the mills are pigs and can reject or outright cancel an order whenever they want for whatever reason they want. They know when the price is going up and when its going to down. To hold out would be silly and for yards with cash flow problems or not much cash on hand this would be suicide to hold out all the time and hope and pray the price is going to go up the next month. If we knew what the market was going to do each month I wouldn't be in the scrap industry I would be in vegas hegging my bets against the price each month. Not saying I know everything. I just work in a scrap yard every single day and have a little insight into whats going on.

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I am not going to argue either. Different markets demand different things. The majority of yards in my area now are empty as it is. We no longer have 5000 plus tons a month incoming. More like a few thousand if that. Its dead. Yeah every year the price drops around now but this could be like 2008 all over again and I expect a huge drop next month. We can't argue about the fact that the mills are pigs though.

my grandpa was best friends with the mill owners father that we use..they broke into the scrap business about the same time..my gpa couldnt get along with the customers and he couldnt use a torch lol..but i do agree most mills are scandelous and will get ya anyway they can lol..and i still get close to 8000 tons a month..but im the only true scrap yard in the area besides that beast alters about 90 miles from me lol..but i have been feeling a pinch on number 2 steel...its hard to compete with a shredder lol...they pay 10 less a ton for shred then i do number 2 steel so i cant compete with that noone can cut steel for 10 a ton lol..

Ha you can't cut scrap for 10 bucks a ton. I get my air for .68 cents a 100cfm and bulk propane market price. The cost of cutting is about eight dollars just in gases for a ton. So thats two dollars a ton a ton for labor. They have to be losing money on it if that's the case especially if its that close to the mill buying price. So I have to ask who do you have do your cutting for you? I am a state or two below you and always willing to provide contract torchmen. Lock in your price per ton and never worry about how much its going to cost you to process something per ton.

noone can cut a ton for 10 like i stated in my post lol...thats why i said my number 2 market isnt strong because the shredder killed it for me lol.. its hard to convince a guy to cut it 3 foot by 18 inches for 295 a ton when they cut it to fit in the trailer for 285 a ton lol...i hired my cutters off the street..i have been super lucky with cutters i havent had to hire one in the last 2-3 years...and they are very efficiant i usually get around 8 ton prepared per cutter per day..of course more if its i beams or something silly easy...but i have been known to wander from the office and be found with a cutting torch in my hand...my cutters respect me so much more knowing not only can i cut but i can put them to shame cutting lol..id rather be in the yard then in the office to be honest..but i only pay 45 bucks for a huge hospital grade oxygen cylinder of liquid then i bought vaporizers to turn the liquid into vapor to make the torches more efficient..but like i said on weekends even though i own a yard you will find me at auctions buying stuff and cutting it myself lol...im a worker not an office guy by nature

If you are constantly doing burning day in and day out. You need to go bulk. Pour a concrete pad put in a big tank get some manifolds made for it. Go big or go home. There is no point in killing your profit having a whole bunch of tanks sitting around bleeding off product which results in change falling out of your pocket every time you hear it blow off. The happiest person right now you deal with is your oxygen company because you are making them a killing. A bulk tank wont bleed off if used properly and regularly. No product lost means no money lost. You are probably also using 100 pound propanes or 435 propanes which you are paying labor on top of gas for each one of them you have to be filled. A 500 gallon tank will save you a ton of money. Once a month delivery versus's probably once a week delivery is three less trips a month the bigger you go the more you save. Are you locked into a contract with your gas supplier or is it just a verbal agreement? How many tons a month on average are you cutting? How many tons of torch material do you have on the ground right now if you were to estimate? See a simple argument can turn into you saving money lol. Cut your costs at all costs has always been my motto.

Oh and don't say no one can cut for 10 bucks a ton. I have heard stories from many yard owners about burners from texas who knows if they were legal or not that will cut for 10 bucks a ton all day long you provide the gases. The only problem is experience. Pretty much the problem is they have problems cutting difficult stuff and pretty much only want to cut clean scrap and easy to cut heavy stuff. No oily or rusty or dirty scrap. So they are basically worthless if they can't cut scrap like that. They also waste gas which ends up costing more just turn it all the way up and go is there motto. They don't care its not there money.

i have my own propane tank out back that i get filled once a month sometimes twice depending how busy it is...and its a whole different story when you provide the gases...i have 2 customers i provide propane to for free..but noone who buys their own oxygen and propane can make a living at 10 a ton...NOONE lol..and if your so gung ho about 10 a ton..and the 2 customers are family members lol..when i was a small time cutter i was always offered to cut combines for 25 bucks a ton..if i worked 8 hours i could get pretty much a whole combine done...but being that quick you learn quickly you can make way more buying the stuff yourself and taking it in instead of cutting it...only way to make living at 10 a ton even with gases paid would be cats or cranes or the likes where 2 cuts equates to 1500-2500 pounds falling to the ground lol and still it wouldnt be a great living more like surviving lol

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Originally Posted by PistoneScrapProcessing

If you are constantly doing burning day in and day out. You need to go bulk. Pour a concrete pad put in a big tank get some manifolds made for it. Go big or go home. There is no point in killing your profit having a whole bunch of tanks sitting around bleeding off product which results in change falling out of your pocket every time you hear it blow off. The happiest person right now you deal with is your oxygen company because you are making them a killing. A bulk tank wont bleed off if used properly and regularly. No product lost means no money lost. You are probably also using 100 pound propanes or 435 propanes which you are paying labor on top of gas for each one of them you have to be filled. A 500 gallon tank will save you a ton of money. Once a month delivery versus's probably once a week delivery is three less trips a month the bigger you go the more you save. Are you locked into a contract with your gas supplier or is it just a verbal agreement? How many tons a month on average are you cutting? How many tons of torch material do you have on the ground right now if you were to estimate? See a simple argument can turn into you saving money lol. Cut your costs at all costs has always been my motto.

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the only reason i buy tanks the way i do is because i get tips and torches well below cost...i get brand new harris tips for a few bucks, concoa tips for a few bucks..regulators for 10 bucks...and the reason i get those prices is because i buy everything from them and have been going to the same place since my grandpa scrapped..then my dad went there...now i go there...i get so sick when i hear people say oh your rich and hate on me for it...i worked my butt off to get what i have today..and i still work my butt off...the last 10 years i havent had more then 8 days off per year that i did nothing but relax...if you guys here are just going to hate on me for being a hard worker and dont want my advice i will gladly leave lol

Screw a torch, I use plasma.