Its time to increase holdings

Hey y'all, its been a minute but I'm still in the house. Anyhow, I know prices are getting a pinch right now and that's ok if you ran your scrap business like a small investment firm. Here is what I am talking about. The items we collect and sort for money are all commodities and can be be founded on stock market ticker. As such, we too must obey the laws of investment if we are going to survive this and thrive during down times. What am I talking about, it's time to increase one's holdings. Right now, I am holding on all copper 1 & 2. To back up my copper, I am holding copper/aluminum radiators, and lastly, to back up the radiators, I am holding brass. Warren Buffet points out that during the rough times, opportunity is there for the ones who positions themselves properly and increase their holdings so that when the market rebounds and it always does, you will reap the benefit. Can't say I did not tell you. I welcome all feedback.

I am with you 100%

I am not sure on this one, we scrappers are small fish and even if we all stopped turning in stuff prices would not go up, scrap yards need metal to survive. They are feeling the pain the same as you and I. The best thing you could do besides calling for prices is to let the scrapyards know what you have, then when they might need stuff to fill out a container or load they may call you and give you a better price.

Ive been hoarding since July 2018 when the prices dropped back then

Turn and burn. It would pile up and there is no telling when it would turn around or even if it will. Tel the hold until it turns around strategy to anyone who has been holding gold and silver for the past fifteen years.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2004/04/2..._the_boss_the/

its gold and silver that hold the REAL value.
so all those who are able to reclaim gold and silver from their ewaste, should do it as much as possible.

paper money is worthless when the crap REALLY hits the fan...and the way things are going, it looks as if thats what most of the ppl will be facing soon.

i hope im wrong but theres a BIG recession coming mainly bcos govts & reserve banks are continuing to do the very same stuff that caused the previous recessions- its almost as if they WANT it to happen?

I think we all have our own points of view.

From what i'm seeing .... it looks like the exact opposite. Scrap prices go through the roof in times of crisis. They stabilize and drop out during the good times.

Many people don't like it but the US dollar IS the global reserve currency. If you look at the daily exchange rates ... it's easy to see that the dollar fluctuates in value. When the dollar is weak, it takes more dollars to buy a certain thing. When the dollar is strong, it takes fewer of them to buy that thing.

That's part of the reason why scrap prices are down here in the US.

Another factor is supply and demand. Demand for the scrap products that we produce is off. We don't realize it but we are the boss on this one. If we clench up ... and stop producing ...it will bring them to their knees.

We just have to be a$$holes about it. >:)

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Originally Posted by t00nces2

Turn and burn. It would pile up and there is no telling when it would turn around or even if it will. Tel the hold until it turns around strategy to anyone who has been holding gold and silver for the past fifteen years.

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I've been doing a bit of gold & silver since the mid 70's. It's not really an investment. You don't really make money with it . Gold generally moves relative to the dollar.

You might think of it as being more of an insurance policy against complete economic meltdown. Let's say that gold rose to a million dollars an ounce. Which would have more value ... a million dollars of worthless paper currency -or- an ounce of gold ?

So ... gold is a way of preserving wealth.

It has another purpose as well.

Gold is portable wealth. Let's say that everything went to hel* in a handbasket on the African continent. You could gather up your gold coins, bug out, and start a new life somewhere else.

Silver is somewhat portable but it's darned heavy to lug around in any amount.

Copper, aluminum, and steel are entirely different animals. Comparing those to PM's is like comparing apples & oranges. You mainly work the margins between the buy and sell price on those commodities.

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Originally Posted by hills

I think we all have our own points of view.

From what i'm seeing .... it looks like the exact opposite. Scrap prices go through the roof in times of crisis. They stabilize and drop out during the good times.

Many people don't like it but the US dollar IS the global reserve currency. If you look at the daily exchange rates ... it's easy to see that the dollar fluctuates in value. When the dollar is weak, it takes more dollars to buy a certain thing. When the dollar is strong, it takes fewer of them to buy that thing.

That's part of the reason why scrap prices are down here in the US.

Another factor is supply and demand. Demand for the scrap products that we produce is off. We don't realize it but we are the boss on this one. If we clench up ... and stop producing ...it will bring them to their knees.

We just have to be a$$holes about it. >:)

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I stand by what I said. Just keep bringing in the $$$'s. You could be right, or you could be wrong. It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future

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Originally Posted by hills

I've been doing a bit of gold & silver since the mid 70's. It's not really an investment. You don't really make money with it . Gold generally moves relative to the dollar.

You might think of it as being more of an insurance policy against complete economic meltdown. Let's say that gold rose to a million dollars an ounce. Which would have more value ... a million dollars of worthless paper currency -or- an ounce of gold ?

So ... gold is a way of preserving wealth.

It has another purpose as well.

Gold is portable wealth. Let's say that everything went to hel* in a handbasket on the African continent. You could gather up your gold coins, bug out, and start a new life somewhere else.

Silver is somewhat portable but it's darned heavy to lug around in any amount.

Copper, aluminum, and steel are entirely different animals. Comparing those to PM's is like comparing apples & oranges. You mainly work the margins between the buy and sell price on those commodities.

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But you could sell that one ounce of gold and pay off every single debt you had.

Ive said it before I can stack $100 bills in much less space than I can a ton of scrap/copper whatever

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I stand by what I said. Just keep bringing in the $$$'s. You could be right, or you could be wrong. It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future

Hills:

It is tough to make predictions. There's so much static and noise surrounding politics these days that it's hard to get a clear picture.

One argument in favor of turn n burn is that you are getting paid in stronger dollars. The dollars that you get paid at the scrap yard go a little further when you buy something at Wal Mart. Jeez ... got a nice set of 14" tires for 137 dollars delivered a few weeks ago.

As regards clenching off and being an A-hole: That should be self explanatory. People go on strike for higher wages all the time. Capitalists manipulate the market to drive prices higher. Look at what OPEC's oil embargo did to the US economy back in the 70's & early 80's.

If we scrappers, as a group of producers, actually are oversupplying the market and driving prices down, we have only ourselves to blame.

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But you could sell that one ounce of gold and pay off every single debt you had.

Hills:

That would more likely happen while the currency is inflating. Inflation is usually a slow process. Let's say you were making 30,000$ a month on a minimum wage job. It would be easy to pay that 1,500 $ a month mortgage payment. You could make additional 10,000 a month principle payments and be out of debt in no time.

That's why the banks would like it the other way around. They loan you weaker / inflated dollars. You pay them back in stronger / deflated dollars.

If you operate buying and selling on margin then unless a market collapses entirely (like tin in some places right now) then your margin shouldn't drop *too* dramatically even though your overall revenue passing through may. Sell prices drop? Then your buy prices drop. Sell prices rise? Then buy prices rise. If it's not a buy/sell scrapping effort then this is for sure a less useful way to go about things.

My scrapyard ( In NewZealand ) has a huge pile of scrap Iron at the moment.
And their prices for Copper are NZ$7+ which is higher than they have been for a long time.

Our NZ$ has weakened a little against the US$. It was worth US$0.70, now its about US$0.63 cents.

US$0.66 is a good level, its easy to calculate ( 2/3rds of a US$ ) & petrols just a bit over NZ$2.15/litre.
Thats way way more than the US price, but its pretty much taxed here by the Goverment by 100%+

That Tax pays for roads & bridges & infrastructure & also adds to paying for hospital bills for vehicle accidents.
Car registration is about NZ$100 a year depending on how safe your car is.
If you are involved in a car accident, badly hurt, the Goverment pays all the hospital bills, pays 80% of your wages & your prescriptions are $5 per script up to $100/year & then its free.
If you cant work, Goverment pays for a bunch of other stuff as well, special vehicles etc.
Trips to hospital if out of town plus accommodation etc etc.

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Originally Posted by JJinLV

If you operate buying and selling on margin then unless a market collapses entirely (like tin in some places right now) then your margin shouldn't drop *too* dramatically even though your overall revenue passing through may. Sell prices drop? Then your buy prices drop. Sell prices rise? Then buy prices rise. If it's not a buy/sell scrapping effort then this is for sure a less useful way to go about things.

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This is an important factor in the mix though.

Much like yourself ... our gasoline business operates on a set margin between the buy and sell price. The main thing is that we're under pressure to move volume. That's not as much of an issue in the summer because our sales triple with all of the seasonal tourism. It's a real problem for us in the winter though. Volume drops below the point of profitability. We have to start cutting staff & other operating expenses in order to achieve a break even. Even then ... it's questionable.

It's the same for a scrap yard. You're under pressure to move volume. If volume drops off ... you're going to be between a rock and a hard place. Hopefully ... you've stockpile enough during the busy season ... to see you through the slower times of the year.

That might be one of the reasons why scrap prices tend to go up in the winter and drop in the summer.

I remember a hard winter here in the US that shut down most of our copper mines. That created more demand for scrap copper to make up the shortfall in supply and prices went up at the yard.

Just an opinion, but i think China's National Sword program along with other trade barriers have wrought havoc on the recycling industry here. Demand for the things we scrappers produce seems to be way off.

ETA: That's bad for us and that's bad for the yards as well. We're all in the same boat here.

Easy decision for me, especially as a hobby/part-timer. I don't like clutter. I found the metal once, I can always find it again. I won't hold on to it, it's not going to run out.

A lot of us are so small time that it's a drop in the bucket. I have a box of RAM I need to send into Gorven, but I just haven't yet, because I've had bigger things to have to work on. I'll send it in as soon as I get a free minute, but for 20-25 pounds of RAM, a dollar or two a pound really isn't that much

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Originally Posted by t00nces2

I stand by what I said. Just keep bringing in the $$$'s. You could be right, or you could be wrong. It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future



But you could sell that one ounce of gold and pay off every single debt you had.

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Aluminium was once worth more than Gold.