Missed Deer Today

A sad story this morning. For me anyway. This year I decided to take up deer hunting, (for food not sport). My family owns a little undeveloped land in the next town over, about 20 minutes from my house. A little ways in a friend put a tree stand, which I can use. So this morning was my 4th time out, ever. I sit in the tree stand this morning from dawn till about 7:30. I am about to pack up and go to work. I decided to stay a couple more minutes..

Then I hear some knocking on trees a distance away. So I say to myself, huh, I'll wait and see what that is. 15 minutes later I hear some walking in the leaves and a doe appears. This doe is about 15 yards away. I don't have a doe permit so I just watch in silence as it forages. I think to myself, the tree knocking must be a buck, the does' mate. So about 10 minutes later a good size buck appears. I'd guess between 170 and 180 lbs. Being my first year, first opportunity to harvest a deer, I am excited. This buck is 35-40 yds away. I clearly see the rack, head and neck. The body was behind a little brush and sticks. So, again, I am excited and take a shot. Miss. Buck stands there, in shock I'm guessing, so I take another shot. Miss. Buck runs away and I wait in the stand a few minutes, in case i didn't miss, and let it find a place to lay down.

I climb down the tree stand and check for a blood trail. Nope. I missed. No dinner for me tonight. I made a rookie mistake. Instead of waiting for a good, clear shot, my excitement gets me and the deer gets away.

I hunt with a 12 gauge shot gun. I was using slugs. I am wondering if I should use buck shot. Any of my fellow SMF members have experience with buck shot, and if so? Yea or nay? (on using buck shot)

nutpie. I prefer using slugs over buck shot.

Have you shot the gun much and know that it is accurate?

I don't hunt but I know they don't use buckshot around here. Except for birds.
Sorry you missed your dinner, though.

Yes the gun was sighted in a few weeks ago and adjusted for my shooting.

I would recommend slugs. I do not think ? buckshot could penetrate the vital organs to make a clean/humane harvest. With buckshot you also do not have the impact a slug provides. I have shot deer with 20 gauge slugs, but prefer my rifles or bow.

Is it legal in Maine? I know you have to have 00 or larger here to hunt with.
It's not the choice method for taking deer you intend to eat with 40-50+ pellets a shot.
It can be done but that 35 yard shot would have been about 10 yards out of range..IMO

I don't hunt and haven't shot a long gun in many years, so take this bit of advice with a grain of salt. People who shoot for a living prepare themselves to shoot from an elevated position by practicing.

Why not take a target to the hunting location and take that same shot at the target. The worst that will happen is you scare away a few deer that day. You already did that by missing the first deer. Good luck, Mike

It would be better to wait for your shot. Most of the deer hunting here is close quarters so a 12 ga is okay. Myself ...i would say anything more than 50 feet away would really be pushing it with a slug.They tend to tumble & drop especially if you're using a smooth bore.

Wouldn't recommend 00 buck unless there's a full choke on the barrel. There aren't many pellets in the shell. They tend to spread out pretty quickly. At any distance .... it's more likely that you would injure the deer instead of making a clean kill.

Maybe take the 12 ga out to a gravel pit somewhere and experiment with it ? Get some big pieces of cardboard and study the shot pattern of the 00 at different distances. Same thing with slug drop. Every gun is different.

Welcome to hunting. That's why its called "hunting" and not "getting". We can use generally what we want for firearms in SD but most use rifles. Only part of my county uses shotgun slugs because of its population density. For whatever reason, all of Iowa and 2/3rds of MN are forced to use shotgun slugs. "Buckshot" is not legal for deer in SD.

A couple of things:

Does do not have a "mate", they get bred when they're ready by whatever buck can get her. During the rut, usually the domianant buck gets to breed the most does but its not guaranteed. Breeding season, if he survives it, is an exhaustive time for a decent buck.

NHScrapman- A 2 3/4 inch 12 gauge shell will hold 9 #00 buckshot and a 3 inch shell will hold 15. I don't know if they load a 3 1/2 shell with buckshot.

At close range, a load of buckshot is devastating because of multiple projectiles but each loses energy fairly quickly, that's why most states don't allow it for deer hunting. A shotgun slug has tremendous penetrating power and even though its not moving that fast because its mass, has great killing energy within its range limits.

Scrapph- Even the old standard 1 oz. "wheel weight" 12 gauge slug doesn't drop that bad up to about 50 yards or more. The chances of it hitting a substantial tree branch is probably greater in Maine than it hitting below a deer because of its ballistics. The new saboted shotgun slugs have greater flat shooting range than the flying bowling ball. My friend at work grew up just over the line in MN and they shoot shotgun slugs at even running deer up to a 100 yards away across the open landscapes of farmland. They also do miss shots but have been hunting many years and know angles, animal's speed, yardages, etc. They don't limit out every year with their party but get a decent percentage of tags harvested. My friend uses a green dot low power scope, sabot slug, and probably a rifled barrel. But I wouldn't be afraid to shoot at a deer in my landscape at 50 yards or more with a smooth barrel 12 gauge.

First time I went deer hunting I was 13 and had a borrowed old .30-30 lever that I hadn't shot before that morning. I shot a box and half rounds (about 30) that first weekend without drawing blood but I did make a lot of dirt fly! Got my first deer for sure when I was a senior in high school when a decent 4 x 4 (8 point for your Eastern guys) WT materialized in an open pasture trotting after a hot doe. Have taken probably over 50 white-tail, mulie, and pronghorns since that time. And I certainly don't get every one I shoot at, far from. That's why its called hunting and not getting...

For Rog - I totally hear what you're saying about making longer shots with a slug. I used to be fairly decent back in the day. Then ... the responsibilities of being a father and husband came along and i had to put everything else aside because i had little ones depending on me to be there for them. From my experience i would say practice,practice,practice. Know your firearm and know exactly how it behaves with different loads under different conditions. When you go to fire it should come from muscle memory. The weapon is drawn up, gets sighted in on the target, safety off, then a smooth squeeze on the trigger. After that ...a fresh round back in the chamber in case a follow up round is needed to finish the job.

As much as anything i would say that it's knowing your limitations. For me: I'm out of practice. I'm working with a smooth bore 12 ga pump. Originally, it was a full choke goose gun but i cut the barrel down to 18.5" so that it could also be used for tactical purposes. It's got a bead sight on the front and a groove on the receiver. Another factor is that it's running Wal-Mart ammo which isn't the most reliable stuff on the market. Given the situation, it would be best to be patient and wait till the buck is well within range before making the shot.

We have quite a few deer come through on my property. They "yard up" about 1/3 of a mile down the road and the different tribes come through on a pretty regular basis as they follow their migratory pattern around the island. It's not uncommon for the females & the lambs to come out and browse on the lawn when i'm working outside. The bucks tend to hang back in the woods and don't come out very often. They seem to have a harem of 1 - 3 females & lambs. When a buck gets killed during hunting season another younger male will eventually come in to take his place.

I don't have the time for it, but the family hunts the land 100' in back of the house out by the apple trees. They're pretty much guaranteed to get one or two deer out of there ever year. A lot of times they just sit and watch the deer come through for weeks from the tree stand. They LOVE hunting season and have a bad case of buck fever by Nov. 1st. The problem is that once you tag your deer the season is all over for you. They tend to bide their time and pick the one they want.

Only one rule for hunting on the property: One shot ... one kill.

Not saying that it should be the same for anybody else. It's just an unspoken agreement that evolved over the years. My brother in law is really passionate about hunting and always has been for as long as i've known him. We were talking the other day and he regrets what he feels were learning mistakes he made when he was coming up through. He's bound and determined that he will teach his daughters and grandchildren what he believes is the 'right way" . I think he's getting to an age where his eyesight is failing and now it's about his legacy and continuing a family tradition of being really good at this thing.

Kind of a side note: It may vary by county but here in Maine it's legal to hunt deer with anything but a .17 or .22 rimfire. Never heard of it being done, but if somebody wanted to, they could legally hunt with a .22 magnum rimfire.

Was tempted to say this earlier, but bit my tongue. I would not hunt big game anymore with a slug unless it was the only option. They are not consistent even if the shotgun is sighted in. I did not know shot guns could be purchased with rifled barrels, but for me a shot gun is for birds, rifles are for mammals, and bows can be used for both. I do not understand how a rifled barrel would produce the spiraling of a pellet, but there are many things I do not understand.

To many hunting is an adrenalin rush, the kill is anticlimactic, and the food is a blessing. I justify the rush and blessing by the fact that death in nature is never pleasant. Second to hunting, being hit by a vehicle is the next best way of natures cause of death to wild life. Therefore a humane harvest is more important than the trophy.

In Lander, Wy. they have a one shot tournament for antelope. For more information, Google one shot, Lander WY. It is hard to enter the tournament because it is reserved for prominent figures such as politicians, astronauts, actors, etc. States and different organizations petition the committee for entry. This is only mentioned because of the history of hunting ethics that surround the hunt. I have been invited to the Victory Banquet several times, but never participated in the hunt. I was always hopeful the pre hunt target shooting would enlist an invitation, but accuracy does not out preform a diplomat. Just the same, the one shot tournament exists every year for this hunter and most of the time I am a winner.

Nutpie - If you are after the wild life for food I assume you have some experience cooking wild game. If not you should be aware that venison shot in the forest is a lot different than that shot around farm land. Preparation is also different. If you do not fill your tag check with your local wardens. There are many hunters that do not appreciate the taste of wild game and will donate it to a interested individual. Another piece of advice, if you take it to a game processor, make sure you do it with several carcasses your buddies shot. The reason is that processers combine several deer when they produce hamburger, sausage, etc. If the other deer were not properly prepared, you will taste it.

I love it when scrap and hunting are part of the same discussion.

P76- The old standard 1 oz. shotgun slug was (is) shaped like a .22 solid lead but I don't think is as long proportional wise as a .22 solid nose is to itself because of the weight but I'm not sure as I've never taken one apart. The exposed lead of the round catches the rifling in a "slug" barrel just as a .22 solid nose but because its isn't moving that much faster than a .22 and so much more weight, it drops fairly quickly. In the new sabot rounds, the plastic housing catches the rifling and then falls away as soon as the unit leaves the barrel. The newer rounds have better ballistic coefficients.

I'm sure many Minnesotans and Iowans (and I think Illinois at least too) would prefer to use rifles on deer but the "better be safe than sorry" state agency culture about higher density farmland areas in the past wanted a round that wouldn't go 300 yards even if a guy arced it high compared to a 30-40 degree arced rifle bullet that could still kill someone at half a mile or more. When the Midwest Corn Belt farmland whittled down to a lot fewer farms and occupied dwellings, the state regs never caught up with the new geography and guys still have to use slugs. But like I said, my friend and his family/friends group that hunts in fairly open landscapes do alright hunting deer with shotguns. Then again, they know the area like the back of their hands and in sw MN there isn't a lot of cover for deer to hang out in after the crops come out. If they kick a buck out of this patch of cover most likely its going to head to a,b, or c. But its still hunting and not getting. :lol:

Scrappah- Thanks for the stories. How far off of the mainland is your island and how do the deer get out to the island?? And, we call the young ones "fawns" around here ;). I prefer not to shoot a yearling but sometimes its Hobson's choice deer hunting, some venison is better than none...

I have never hunted for deer with a shotgun, as I was always fortunate to hunt in fairly underpopulated (with people) forest. The deer hunt for me always started weeks before the season started. Required lots of observation looking for their bedding, feeding, watering holes and socializing areas. Careful observing of theses spots by finding their bedding location, you can actually find where they bed, in the early morning hours, see the silhouettes of dry leaves where they bedded down. Find their tracks and trails to where they feed and water and find the trees where they rub and scratch their selves on. Put the time in before the hunt to find tell tail signs and you have a better chance of getting lucky!

For Patriot:

I tend to look at it this way: A firearm is just a piece of machinery -or- a tool. Like anything else each tool has it's purpose. Most of the guys around here hunt with a rifle because that's the best tool for the job but a 12 ga. can do the job if it's used correctly.

A 12 ga. is more of a general purpose tool that does a bit of everything. It's better for someone just starting out that might not have too much money to put into it. I was awfully fond of of my 12 ga single shot back in the day. It was a simple and reliable piece of machinery. It was lightweight. It easily broke down into three parts that would fit nicely in my pack. Elegant in it's simplicity.

For a bit more money you can get a shotgun with interchangeable barrels. A rifled barrel would be intended for rifled slugs. It probably wouldn't be the best choice for shot because you would run into problems with lead fouling. The new steel shot would probably damage the rifling in the barrel. In a case like that you would swap in your smoothbore for running shot.

If you went really high up to the BMW of shotguns you could get something 10 or 15 different barrels that you could swap in for different purposes. Some of the barrels even fire rifle cartridges in the most popular hunting loads. That's more like buying the fine art of the gunsmith than purchasing an everyday tool that's put to practical use.

Around here .... most people process their own deer meat. They will hang it in a tree out in the front yard for days so that everybody can see that they got their deer this year. The big thing is that there's a scent gland down by the crotch. If you accidently puncture it when you're dressing out the deer then it will most likely foul the meat. It's best for a first timer is to get one of the neighbors to show them how to do it.

For Rog: You're right about the geometry of the slug. The length isn't in the right proportion to it's diameter. It doesn't fly quite true even if it's been run through a rifled barrel. My opinion is that it's got an awful lot of wallop at short range.

When you're talking about rifle rounds it's easy to understand because you're talking about the bullet diameter in hundredths of an inch. A 22 rimfire is 22/100 ths. The military M-16 is 22.7/100 ths. All of the 30 & 40 caliber rounds are basically the same thing. The shotgun rounds are confusing. A .410 is actually a caliber and can legally be fired from some pistols. A 12 gauge translates into being a 50 caliber round !

We're actually two islands that are not that far off the coast. There's a bridge from the mainland that goes over to the smaller of the two and then there's a causeway that goes over to the bigger one. Where we're landing millions of pounds of lobster every year we need a land route for trucking.

If you look at the history though .... deer have been here for thousands of years. Long before the bridge or even first white settlers in the 1600's. Nature abhors a vacuum. The deer and the other wildlife swim here. In the old days it was much colder and the ocean would freeze for miles out away from the mainland. They would just walk across the ice in a search for food if things got scarce where they were.

There's a national park called Isle au Haut that's way out in the water. Visited there a few times and it's over run with deer.

As far as the little ones go: There's a certain logic as to why they aren't taken. The law say that you can't take a deer that doesn't have antlers. A limited number of Doe permits are issued on a lottery basis every year. The thing is that there are so many large does you would naturally take one of them instead of settling for a yearling.

There's kind of a cultural thing going on too. When you tag your deer it has to be taken to the weigh station and logged in. It's sort of a friendly competition to see who brings in the biggest deer and the winner gets bragging rights.

If you showed up with Bambi ???

I have had game meat. I like it, not as much as a steak, but I like it. My dad and step dad are both avid hunters. So I guess I lied. I have been hunting, when I was just a wee one. But it's a little different now, I have to provide for myself. No sight of any deer from the tree stand since I created this post. I did pick up buckshot but I don't know if I will use it.

South Dakota has both fairly simple and complex way of managing deer. We're different than many states in that we have very few "buck only" types of licenses and can't buy a deer license over the counter unless all the lotteries are done and there are leftover tags. There are also very few state wide gun licenses but we apply by application for a lottery by unit, usually county based. Individual counties will have different numbers of tags available and with different mixes. Just in the "East River" section of the state which is mostly white-tail, a county may have "any deer", "any white-tail", "any anterless deer", "any anterless whitetail" and others (see link to the application pdf).

But after that, what gets knock down and cut up is pretty much open. The East River section of the state usually has about a 65-70% success ratio for at least one deer (often licenses have been double tags), with slightly more than half being anterled bucks, and the rest does and fawns. We don't check in deer with the state agency but they get a handle on the harvest by a sampled survey and request the 2 front lower teeth as a way to get data on the harvest sex ratio and age of animal. A deer must be tagged with the sticky peel-away license that has to go on one of the lower legs. Once affixed, the tag really can't be removed with destroying it although there are guys who try to cheat by just sticking 2 small corners together and then the tag can be taken off after butchering and "used" again. Although the state agency guys are lenient that we don't have check in animals, they are very aggressive against cheaters who try to double dip with a single tag, use the wrong tag on an animal ("I didn't get a 'buck'--["any deer"] tag this year so I'll throw this doe tag on it so people from the road think I'm legal"), or use another person's license. Usually violations and outright willful law breaking boils down to greed for getting one's own way, "gotta get a deer" or "gotta get a buck" or "its the biggest buck I've seen and I have to get it even though I can't hunt there or its after hours or whatever". The basic dark side of human nature that can (will) surface in about anything endeavor.

http://gfp.sd.gov/hunting/licenses/l...ms/DeerApp.pdf