Don't remove copper tubes from Al/cu radiators

I was reading an article about scrapping AC's. In the following thread people were
asking if it was worth it to remove the copper tubing from an aluminum copper radiator
to make more money. The answer, if any of you haven't figured it out by now, is no.
first the remaining aluminum fins you get (if you manage to separate them) wont be
Taken by the scrap yard because aluminum that thin just flashes off in the furnace, so it
isn't worth anything. Second on lets say a 30 pound radiator, only 3 pounds of it (if your lucky)
will be copper either #1 or #2 copper depending on the yard and if it has any soder. At $.90/lb
for Al cu rads you'll get $27. For 3 pounds of #2 copper, you'll get a measly $4.50. So why
Would you throw away $22.50?

I have put some thought into the topic as I have sold off some of my copper, brass & aluminum scrap over the last couple years or so.

Never thought about the thinness of the aluminum fins and it not being easy to process into new metals.
What about aluminum cans? they seem about the same thickness as the aluminum fins around/on the copper tubes.

I have read that aluminum foil is not a popular scrap item because they say that it just mostly burns away in the furnace.
Must have something to do with the processing of the materials before they are fed into the melt.

I have noticed that most of the aluminum fins that I have ended up with that are separated from the copper do smash a bit differently then cans when you step on a pile with your feet to compact it. But then it was bent and crumpled sheet v.s. cylinders with ends and a air release hole.

Must be more expensive and require more steps and processes for foil and thin fins then aluminum cans that have been sorted, cleaned and compacted or such?

I have read that aluminum cat food cans are another item along with used cooking foil that many yards don't want to MESS with. But it seems that it is the MESS that they want to avoid as aluminum foil is most times very dirty. As for cat food cans, not just sure what the problem is there beyond being dirty with paper labels and such. Are they a different aluminum or thickness then soda and beer cans are made of? It's all such a puzzle.

I will cut the magnetic metals away or out of these type items. And I will most times cut the easy to get at extra copper or such off for a better overall return.

I have been getting a very nice pile of old copper/aluminum bearing items together as I find them around the yard. Still have many items to move later that I can see but not easily get at until I clear the areas around them better.

Seems that more research is required on the differences in aluminum materials that cans, foil and thin sheet are made from and what must be done to process into a final product.

Where is Mister Rogers and Picture Picture when you need them?

What I do. Only remove the copper loops from the ends in order to remove steel. This way you have #2 copper (the loops), Clean Cu/Alu radiator (no steel) and 2 pieces of steel to toss in with your other steel. As is here would be $.90 lb. Broken down is $2.21 #2 Copper, $1.24 copper / aluminum clean radiator and $.035 for the prepared steel. It makes sense for me to break them down. I would never try and remove all the copper from the aluminum. And for that aluminum I would only get dirty/furnace price $.20 so better to keep it on as long as its clean!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scrapdaddyj

I was reading an article about scrapping AC's. In the following thread people were
asking if it was worth it to remove the copper tubing from an aluminum copper radiator
to make more money. The answer, if any of you haven't figured it out by now, is no.
first the remaining aluminum fins you get (if you manage to separate them) wont be
Taken by the scrap yard because aluminum that thin just flashes off in the furnace, so it
isn't worth anything. Second on lets say a 30 pound radiator, only 3 pounds of it (if your lucky)
will be copper either #1 or #2 copper depending on the yard and if it has any soder. At $.90/lb
for Al cu rads you'll get $27. For 3 pounds of #2 copper, you'll get a measly $4.50. So why
Would you throw away $22.50?

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Let me start by saying that I haven't broken down any of copper aluminum A/C fins recently, so I can't confirm or prove wrong your numbers.

That being said, I strongly disagree that on a 30 pound copper aluminum A/C fin that you would only get 3 pounds of copper. My gut feeling is that if the steel ends are taken off, that you should have at least 15 to 18 pounds. Now let's get to the aluminum, I have never been told by any of my yards that the won't take that aluminum. I think you need to do some research. Find a video showing a shredder shredding these and then separating them. All that aluminum is sold to aluminum smelter.

Let's go back to your scenario. A scrap yard just paid you $27.00 for 30 pounds of copper aluminum radiator. Are they going to throw out the aluminum and be left with 3 pounds of copper. They would have to be able to sell it for $9 per pound to break even and that doesn't take into account labor, or overhead. If yards could sell #2 copper for $9 per pound, I would have quite my day job by now and owned one.

Both my yards buy the aluminum at foil price. I've never been told by a yard they don't buy the foil.

I used to break them down completely. But, I decided that spending too much time and effort, not to mention the cost of either razor blades or sawzall blades it wasn't worth my time.

the copper tubing is very thin in the rads and I can believe it would only yield 3 pounds maybe a bit more. But, that was my experience with small rads.

now, I cut off the ends, throw the loops in my #2 bucket, the steel in the steel bucket and sell the clean rads for 90 cents a pound.

OP, you may only get 10 cents a pound for the AL but its still something. (or whatever the price is by you).

I have broken down many-a fins. The copper and aluminum is about 50-50 in weight, not including the iron ends. The yard I use buys the alum as clean and copper as #2. It is labor/time intensive. Like anything, the more you do the quicker it gets. But it is a bee with an itch.

I've done it.. I can send the copper in as #1 and the fins as sheet aluminum. I get .45/lb on what is left of the fins when I turn in. Guess it all depends on your buyer, your time, and what works for you!

Why are the coils worth so much more whole than the sum of their parts?

There is an old thread here where a fella made a jig/clamp and a come along to pull the pipes from the fins.
by bolting the rad to the floor and come along from the rafters..
works pretty slick once you get it working.
Edit: his name was Tmoney..
unfortunately he removed or lost the pics in his thread.
http://www.scrapmetalforum.com/made-...radiators.html

the aluminum from coils is 1100 finstock if you have it in quantity and clean you can get a nice price for it. of course no one has it in any real quantity so everyone is pretty happy with old sheet price, but if you can get it in quantity you can get terse price at a large yard

foil allows 5% organic residue Cans allow 0, and normally 2% moisture... Cans are cleaner then foil!

pet foot cans are line with plastic pray for old sheet, expect breakage

the can spec(UBC) for cans "talc" requires . "The material is to be free of other scrap metals, foil, tin cans, plastic bottles, paper, glass, and other non-metallic items"
otherwise its not cans better yards will warn you they don't want cans in the old sheet too many cans in the old sheet make it breakage.

if a yard is giving you #1 Cu for rad tubes you should be happy as a lark, they are number 2 unless they are cleaned. that white residue is aluminum oxide, and it plays hell with copper in very, very small amounts. be leery of any yard giving you #1Cu they are underpaying, or some day they will suddenly change their tune.

V/r

pet foot cans are line with plastic pray for old sheet, expect breakage

the can spec(UBC) for cans "talc" requires . "The material is to be free of other scrap metals, foil, tin cans, plastic bottles, paper, glass, and other non-metallic items"
otherwise its not cans better yards will warn you they don't want cans in the old sheet too many cans in the old sheet make it breakage.

I believe that "talc" states aluminum beverage and food cans! From what I have been told its the buyers of UBC's that don't want the pet food or other aluminum food cans in with them. Anheuser-busch buys lots of UBC's

I do not do many lined cans pet food or otherwise but sometimes when I am slow I just clean them and add them to a washer or oven , I do not scrap alum. cans either because we have a 5 cent return , when I get a few from NH I just chunk em in with the light iron because it may take years to get enough lol

The reason whole rads are worth more is that its easier to break the parts down in a furnace. Since aluminum
melts at a much lower temp it'll seperate from the copper in a furnace easier than it would be to process
a bunch of thin sheets of fins. Pop cans just get crushed and turned into a block that can be melted down.
You just have to look at time vs. Money. How long and how many more tools and consumables are involved in
breaking down rads