Sometimes in my shred there is stuff like plastic shop vac canisters with metal wheels and small screws is this cheating the yard?
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Sometimes in my shred there is stuff like plastic shop vac canisters with metal wheels and small screws is this cheating the yard?
I throw bits of plastic like that in my scrap cars all the time. I think iv heard most yards have a limit of 20% non metal content in your loads.
Just use the canister as a shred bin. When it is full of screws and what not, take it in and just dump the whole canister. The yard won't mind then.
I recently had the same questions. I was scrapping washing machines and the large inner tubs turned out to be plastic. After taking them apart I ended up with BIG old plastic tubs with just a tiny metal bar sticking out of the end. Probably 10 pounds of plastic with 1 pound of metal on it. I had 4 of them in my load and I had one roll off alone right in front of the supervisor. They didnt say a thing and did no deductions. My load overall was still around 95%metal so I think that is the main reason they let it fly.
Aside from my experience the best results I get on these questions is to just call the yard directly =D
no it's not...they factor IN a certain amount of plastic and other waste in their pricing....the whole thing goes into a shredder anyways and then is sorted using eddy current/magnets etc. Besides any yard worth their salt will be recovering the plastic and selling that as well (it is recyclable as mixed). Again, don't OVERTLY screw the yard...if you are good to them and you make sure they know you are cool, they will be good back to you when you ask them for a higher pricing tier after awhile. If they aren't, then find another yard.
I have a different mind set on this. Yes, I know the yard does not mind a small percentage of plastic in the steel and in fact, they price accordingly. However, I have a personal ethic that says never dump on others what you would not want dumped on yourself. I pull every possible scrap of plastic out of my steel even though it takes a bit longer and costs me a couple of dollars. If there is any plastic left in there, it is only because I was not able to remove it at all. I do it for myself because I feel it is right. Does the yard care, or even notice? I doubt it. But who knows, if they start making better money on their sales we might get an increase...
Anyway, this is not meant to be any sort of criticism of anyone else. It is just something I do for myself.
My empty computer cases always have the plastic faces attached when I take them in . My preferred yard is easy to deal with .
But I imagine that's because of the relationship we have established and he fact it's never over %5 of my total load .
I asked specifically about vaccums and printer carcasses . They said in the shred after the motor or boards are removed . Be fizzled me but I don't imagine they say that to everyone . It's prob because I do good volume there and always bring them some sort of food or doughnuts , tasty cakes and such . I give them a few hard drive magnets from time to time .it's just one hand washing the other .
As for me I try to take as much plastic off as possible due to being paid more for my plastics than my metal. But before I had a plastic buyer I left on what was attached.
as a followup to my previous post....I DO take off easily accessible plastic items (canisters and plastic computer fronts etc)....I do that again because it is ethical and take me no time to do it. Again that goes back to pricing tiers...they KNOW when I bring them stuff, it is sorted correctly, I am not screwing them, and in general I TRY to get them clean steel when I bring it.
The point is, DO THE BEST you can do for them and let them know when you go you are trying to look out for them. They will return the favor in pricing...oh and the doughnuts every so often like Metalbestos mentioned....SCORES BIG POINTS. BECAUSE I separate and make sure to give them non contaminated stuff, my yard knows me...the non ferrous guy doesn't even look at my stuff and gives me good prices because of it.
Shredders don't care they just want to be fed...
Audrey II: Feed me!
Couple things I wanted to say. For one, yes the yard likely separates the plastic...I forget the actual process...I know they use air. Then the plastic is further processed into hdpe and pet, one floats one doesnt in the water tank. Pelletized HDPE is something like 225/ton on the market and most of the time they use it for drainage tile and hdpe culvert. PET carbonizes and generally is left in the shred as a carbon additive to the melt. Either way, your not doing anything wrong and your not devaluing either by tossing plastic in with a majority metal lot. My Former father in law was in the plastic and cardboard business many many years ago. I used to help him bale and grind on the weekends at his shop. A 275 gallon tote with the top cut off paid him 250 ea...straight profit. I baled cardboard and office paper...he made 100-160 a ton, it varied but it was pretty excellent profit considering not having to deal with anything sticky, heavy or rusty.
ABS plastic is another carbon carrying plastic, some yards shred it with the metal others will sell it to someone who pays around 350/ton for a shredded truckload. It's the only plastic that you can add dyes to for recycling into ANOTHER consumer product, other PET/LDPE turn brown when remelted so they usually end up used in engineered materials and drainage tile...I've also seen plastic used as filler in concrete...it adds a small amount of elastic properties great for earthquake prone areas...and now you know.
Yes, we do. As a now working scrap yard person, we do notice. Before I got the job there I ALWAYS removed as much plastic as possible from my scrap, hell, I'd have to parcel out my garbage to 4 different neighbors I'd have so much! the yard i work at *does* take certain items other yard don't but they also pay a penny less per pound. Now, before I got the job I'd call them and ask if they took certain items (sweepers whole for instance) which are mostly plastic after you factor out the motor. Now I do ''give'' them some plastic on items since they buy it and it saves me breaking down but on the flip side we DO go out and check what has been offloaded and we do get to know who does what as far as garbage offloads and we will remember you next time and deduct if need be.Quote:
Originally Posted by harsas
H&S, as far as the bottom plastic canisters from shop vacs, I do remove the wheels for the shred pile and use the bottoms for small garbage for the garbatge man just because I feel I'm screwing them if I give them that much plastic vs metal.
If I had a full truck of steel, like 800/900 lbs I probably wouldn't worry about tossing the bottom section in but there are folks who give more plastic than steel and if you are one of them and came in the next week and asked for a better price I'd tell you ''No.'' (Not saying you are, that was just an example :) )
For example, we have one guy comes in with AL extrusion daily and he doesn't remove the glass from the windows. I deduct for that. Daily. YOU might come in twice a week with AL extrusion *clean* and ask for a better price and I will give it to you because it saves ME cleaning time and irritation not to mention safety issues cleaning glass from multiple windows and the cleanup time associated with that. I would give you a card with a fixed price for each time you came in above normal pay prices or I would remember you and if I weren't at the scale when you came in and the person working the scale didn't know you get better price all they have to do is come ask me if you tell them I pay you better.
I guess for me, even though my yard takes plastic, morally I can't give it to them, it just doesn't feel right.
[QUOTE=armygreywolf;220626]. PET carbonizes and generally is left in the shred as a carbon additive to the melt. Either way, your not doing anything wrong and your not devaluing either by tossing plastic in with a majority metal lot. [/QUOTE
THAT, is something I have been wondering about for a while. Just in the back of my mind, its a sorta theory in a way.
Does the small amount of Plastic, or Copper, or Rust, actually help in a way when it comes to the resmelting of the metal?
So now I know that a small amount of Plastic adds Carbon to the Iron/Steel. Thanks for that, very much.
I think Copper is added to Iron in the smelting process. Not sure if theres a advantage or not though.
Rust? Well, Rust is Iron oxide, Iron and Oxygen. Oxygens used in huge amounts in steel smelting. The Rust is just pretty much self contained Oxygen distributed thruout the Iron. So, I guess, it does help. I guess....
I also have to find out what happens to the Ferrite from small transformers and the feild coil from CRT tvs.
I expect it will grind/wear out shredder teeth and shafts/bearings. But will melt inside a furnace with the molten Iron, turning into normal Iron.
My yard will take just about anything but I usually don't take a lot of plastic. Any plastic that might be on a computer shell or printer stays on but I use the shells to put smaller pieces of metal in. The main problem I have is the plastic that's left over from scrapping phone systems and business phones. In the last 2 months I have thrown away about 1500 pounds of plastic because no one around here will take it.
I take a lot of plastic off when I can but I don't fret over it much. My yard takes appliances so I have no problem throwing the plastic trim etc that comes off during break down back in the carcass. I don't cheat and stuff them with plastic I have lying around, just the stuff that came with the unit. My loads are probably 90%+ steel is I don't worry and the scale man doesn't bat an eye at my loads anymore. He can tell who the scammers are.
I wish yards by me would take extruded alum windows with the glass as dirty alum. I just take the loose alum and leave the rest. Used to take 6' - 8' sliding glass doors wrap them up in heavy duty drop cloth and smash them with a sledge hammer that was fun! But very heavy trying to pick up drop cloth full of safety glass and dump in trash can.
Hmmm, first of all oxygen is NOT part of a melt they sometimes use it like a plasma cutter. When you see them adding gas at the end (changing the chemistry) that is usually argon so they can displace the oxygen. This is also when chromium, nickel, calcium and carbon are added. Iron Oxides, zinc and other things will end up as dross and be skimmed off before the pour. Likewise it's the same reason they don't pour the entire kettle, the last little bit is going to be lead and a slight (I mean slight when I say it) mix of PMs, this is cleaned out, sometimes just poured out on the concrete...before they start a new melt.
How do I know this? I worked for wisconsin investcast when I was a teenager. The cast stainless steel parts but part of the job was processing low grade materials into billets suitable for the various stainless steel castings, company men determined this was cheaper than buying them ready to go. The carbon arc furnace was run at night when electricity was cheaper and let me tell you, not many things louder.
Anyways, this video helps explain how this process is done...even if it is a Syrian plant it is still pretty informative of a modern melt process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=indPHBRK9lw
Cool video.
The Basic Oxygen Steelmaking (BOS) Process
oxygen used in this process