is it illegal not to have id in America??

You all might have heard about this case that's making the news about reported excessive force by police in Hammond, IN. Supposedly the guy didn't have any id and wouldn't get out of the car to comply with the police. Now, a person is never going to win in the field not complying with the cops but my question is, what were the police going to do with this guy after he couldn't produce id??

This could happen to anyone. Sometimes I've taken off from the house without my wallet so I wouldn't be able to "prove" who I was to the police. So were the cops hoping they would find some weed or something on the guy so they could arrest him or run a warrant check on the name he gave and then arrest him? It appears to me that the cops were on a fishing expedition and had no plan B if this un-id guy came up clean. I know cops have a tough and dangerous job but where goes common sense come into play?? So, it goes back to my question: is it illegal not to have id in the U.S.??

http://abcnews.go.com/US/pair-alleging- ... d=26024762

You do not have to have ID nor do you have to produce and ID to the police. It is not illegal to not comply with LEO without a stated probable cause. (4th and 5th amendments)

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Originally Posted by pwajunkie

You do not have to have ID nor do you have to produce and ID to the police. It is not illegal to not comply with LEO without a stated probable cause. (4th and 5th amendments)

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Yes but when you don't obey an order that is considered resisting law enforcement.

I believe ID is required but I don't have anything to back that up. The thing that sticks out in my mind is the stupidity of not having ID on you

When you're driving a car, you are supposed to have your license on you. I'm pretty sure you can at least be ticketed if you get pulled over and you don't have your license on you, especially if the cop is a ****

one of my favorite shows is cops lol. I actually watched the video and discussed it with my current events team at my high school. there is no charge at all for not having I.d, you can not ever get arrested solemnly on just not having I.d. but it all changes when you dont have id and you tell them false information, that you can be arrested for.

the video itself has no meaning. the guy didnt comply with the cops after being asked several times. window shattered and scared the kids, so what. its protocol.

I have seen videos of people refusing to hand over id at border control spots and they let them fly right through due to constitutional rights, what rights are being broken, I dont exactly know.

final answer: no it not illegal to have id however its always reccomended to have on you just incase of anything happening. i need id to get checks from the yard so I always keep it on me anyway! :)

In NC, resisting arrest is not something you can be charged with, without a underlining charge. Meaning I can't be convinced of the lone charge of resisting without being convicted of another crime that caused the arrest.

Also, you DO NOT have to obey LEO request. If a LEO says "get out of the car" you ask "is that a request or an order?" if it is an order the next question is "what crime am I suspected of?" At that time they MUST tell you what crime they have probable cause the order.

I understand that in Canada, if a person does not have id, the cops can charge them with vagrancy and take them in if they "want" to. Its a way to get people off the street if "someone" wants them gone. For example, to get some undesirables off of the street, like hookers.

J.

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Originally Posted by PickerBenny

the video itself has no meaning. the guy didnt comply with the cops after being asked several times. window shattered and scared the kids, so what. its protocol.
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Id like to see where in the handbook it recommends to destroy private property because you have a huge ego and a badge.

Answer to ID question is no, you do not have to have ID on you. Why you wouldn't have something with you i don't know.

As far as a comment made about driving with no license and the officer being a **** if they write you a ticket, well its called unlicensed operation of a vehicle. Also keep in mind that a ticket is issued in lieu of arrest. BUT act like a horses ass and you can be brought in for any ticketable offense. Bust my balls and be sure I will bust yours back and ruin your day.

As far as the video it does not show what happened to cause the officer to ask to see id from the passenger. There was mention of the person reaching into a bag on the floor of the car when the officer approached the car causing the officer to draw his weapon. Not out of the ordinary and not against any regulations I know of to have your gun drawn during a car stop. Car stops are probably the most dangerous thing an officer can do. You are approaching a car with an unknown entity inside.

As far as what that officer did to extract the passenger, ridiculous!!!! As far as i could hear there was no mention of the person breaking any kind of law or that he was wanted for anything else. What happened there is an officer who lost his composer and will probably lose more than that once the investigation is completed.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm:l8-l8-:rolleyes:

One of the points that the guy who refused to get out brought up was that he wasn't driving so operating a vehicle couldn't used against him. The initial stop, according to the media--taken for waht's it worth-- was a seat belt infraction by the driver. But most of the attention of the officers was on the male passenger. Suppposedly he had reached into a backpack in the back between the 2 kids to look for his id. Again, as I first said, in the field the majority of the time a person will lose by not complying with a cop. And, like I said, what was the cops plan B if this guy was totally clean but without an id?? Take him in to run fingerprints?

If you want to see some good window busting check out people willfull non-complying with border patrol check point well insde from the border. The classic one is of the guy who wouldn't even roll the window down to talk to the guards and had his a/c running on high. Can barely hear them speak from the outside. This guy was purposely trying to get a confrontation. And he did, with his side window also getting busted in after about the same amount of time elpased (13 minutes of video). I haven't heard how things have gone on after that.

Perosnally, I try to comply as soon as possible and get on my merry way. Maybe I'll tell of the time when the cop surely wanted to find me in violation beyond having a burnt out tail light at night but my lunch break is at end...

A few tips if you get pulled over.....

If at night after stopping your vehicle turn the dome light, roll down your window and put both hands either on the steering wheel or on through the window. Empty hands and light go a long way to placing an officer at ease when approaching your car.

As much as it sucks getting pulled over, take a deep breath and put the attitude in check. Most officers have discretion in issuing a ticket. Unless you blew through a light or stop sign or were doing something totally reckless you may just get a warning if you dont piss them off.

You will sometimes get that officer that no matter what you say or how you act will issue you a ticket. They are known as tools amoungst other officers. Thats the family friendly name we call them, they just like giving tickets.

If you are a passenger in a car that is stopped, don't be a roadside lawyer. It is a sure way to get the driver a ticket and you may end up in the back of the cruiser for obstuctiion. In other words shut your mouth.

I give you these tips from the perspective of being on both sides of a car stop. It sucks getti g pulled over and it is dangerous doing them. Drive safely and I hope the tips above will make your next encounter with " the man" a bit easier.

Under the federal Immigration Reform and Control Act, new employees must present proof that they are legally authorized to work in the United States.

When One Document Is Sufficient
United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS, formerly the INS) periodically updates the list of documents sufficient to prove both identity and eligibility to be employed in the United States. Any one of the following documents is sufficient, on its own, to meet the requirements:

•an unexpired United States passport
•an unexpired foreign passport with an I-551 stamp
•an alien registration receipt card or permanent resident card
•an unexpired employment authorization card
•an unexpired employment authorization document, issued by USCIS, which contains a photograph, or
•an unexpired foreign passport with Form I-94 containing an endorsement of nonimmigrant status.
Documentation Required to Work in the United States | Nolo.com

For Immigrant workers (legal of course)

Photo ID Requirements for Air Travel Within the United States | USA Today
Identification Requirements for Boarding Domestic Flights | eHow
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But No by the constitution the 4th and 5th amendment

You can get a ticket for driving without a license, even if you just forgot your license at home. You do not have to have ID on you at any other time to my knowledge, unless in an establishment requiring you to be over a certain age or if you have consumed/are consuming alcohol and need to prove you are over 21 to an officer for some reason.

An officer could choose to take you to jail for driving without a license if you resist or cause trouble. BUT if you just get a ticket for driving without a license, and actually have a license, you can go to court later and have the ticket dismissed as long as you didn't commit any other crimes or infractions.

Bottom line, keep your hands where the officer can see them and if you need to dig through a bag, under your seat, or your glove box you better communicate with him as to what you're doing. Officers have no way of knowing if you're reaching for ID or a weapon.

Anyone arguing with BC on this really shouldn't being as the man lives an breathes this every day. So he may just have a clue as to what he's talking about. Good fella that BC, just don't anyone tell him I said that, it'll go to his head, an I'll have to listen to it for forever. ;)

Far as not always having ID..I must be stupid then. I walk to my local gas station all the time at night, to grab a soda. I usually don't bring ID with me. I'm not buying anything I need ID for, an I'm not driving, so therefore it'll sit on my dresser in my wallet. Driving? I never leave my ID anywhere if I'm driving. As others said, you'll catch a quick ticket if pulled over an you don't have it on you. Now, most the time if you show up in court it'll be dismissed if you show you do have one an it's all in good order. That's my experience.

On having to show ID..BC answered this. Someone else mentioned a border Patrol stop. You do NOT need to show them "Papers", which is why in countless youtube videos of people doing just this, you see the BP get upset, angry, they then call their boss, who comes over, sees everyone is being a pain in the ass an waves them on.

Cops got a tough job. I do my best to respect them, an always act cool during a traffic stop. Like BC stated..Turn on the lights if it's dark, hands where they can be seen, etc. When I get pulled first thing I do is turn off the car, an hands go on the wheel or up by the window so they can see I'm not doing anything when they approach. They will then ask for license, reg, insurance, etc. All buy my license is under my passenger seat in my van(Has a cubby hole thing) an I always tell them what I'm doing whether there or the glove box. 8 out 10 always thank me for that.

I don't want to be shot, an they don't want to shoot me. Paper work sucks afterall as do doctor visits. LOL. So I try to always be cool. Sometimes you get a ****, an thats when you hit them with kindness it pisses them off a lot.

Just my take, as always..YMMV.

Sirscrapalot - Book'm Danno! - A show older then a lot of you, but way younger then some of you. ;)

It has long been the rule that U.S. citizens don't have to "show their papers" like we live in Nazi Germany. But when you don't know/give up your rights that is YOUR choice.

Driving is a privilege, you are not entitled to a drivers license. If you want to drive you have to follow the laws. Having a license is one of those laws. Dude should have had his license.

On a civil rights note, most people have no idea what their rights are. As others have posted a cop can ask you to do anything he wants to, if you comply to a request that exceeds his authority you are doing so ON YOUR OWN waiving your rights. For example, if you are walking down the street, a cop calls you over to talk to you, and you go over to him. You WAIVED your rights. If you did not stop and kept walking and the cop stops you, you start getting into civil right issues. He "arrested" you by stopping you. He needs probable cause to stop your free movement.

Feds: 75 Percent Of Newark Police Pedestrian Stops Unconstitutional

i cant stand packing a billfold,,,,so mine stays under my truck seat.......so if i am a passenger with someone else i will never have an id.......ive never had 1 problem with not having my id.....ive been pulled over several times while driving and not had one...still no problem.....i just give my social and thats it.......they seem to be more worried about insurance than id....

i actually hate cops,,,,,i have no respect for them at all....in my area they write hard working folks traffic tickets while the meth heads run wild......

on another note when i am stopped i am very polite and conform to anything i am asked to do....unlike alot of folks who like to say ,' well the cops cant do this and they cant do that" i know better...i have been in trouble before,,,i know the cops can do what ever they want...if there not recorded they will get by with it also...sometimes they can even be recorded and still get by with all kinds of horrible stuff......

i was once beaten within an inch of my life by 7 prison guards because i nodded my head to a friend in the lunch line......so i really hate hearing it when folks say oh cops cant do this or that

@ wadarbr549- I respect your opinion and like the saying goes " you cant please all of the people all of the time". One thing I will ask is that please do not lump in prison guards and police officers together. At least where I am from they are two different entities and one job has nothing to do with another.

I've had run in's in with less then professional police. The harassing kind. I have no criminal record, other then a drunk in public charge..I was quite wasted an totally deserved it. I was young an stupid. ;) Now I'm just stupid.

Anyhow, my point is..I don't let my bad interactions with other cops influence ALL my interactions with them. I've dealt with my fair share of being harassed by the police. Now I find being nice works better then being a grumpy ******* to them. The jerk ones just get mad, an the good ones appreciate my awesome attitude. I've never been beaten down by 7 prison guards tho, as..well I've never been to prison. ;) Been roughed up an treated rough by the coppers but it's all good, I'm not the one they need to fear, it's the man who judges us all in the end they need to worry over.

I'm glad I don't let it color my views on all Cops, or else I'd not have a friend in BC, an a few others in that field I call friend. Their not all bad, tho it's all we ever hear about. Then again..when was the last time you saw "good" news reported that wasn't being forced cause it's a holiday or something else.

Sirscrapalot - Smile, it's contagious.