Tax question

I read this post and wonder what some of the member feelings are
can this be a twist in another direction.

First is scrap wile in the form of scrap a capital gain . Meaning as you collect tons of product
what is it to the IRS Law.


I suspect till it is sold it is null But once cashed in naturally income.

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OK so lets say you cash in scrap . receive your receipt proof - Now you goto a gold and silver outlet
and buy silver with scrap money ( generic silver) All receipts are in place to and fro .

So is this taxable income . or till you cash in silver ??

http://www.scrapmetalforum.com/day-l...-surprise.html

Post number 5
#5
armygreywolf
Yes, the company pays in precious metals. Two reasons for this, one...less paperwork for them, two it's up to me to report income when I sell the metal...and when. I have some advice for going this route...don't bother with known materials. Save your omg it's gold bucket for this and refine once a year or less then keep the return for when gold is up. The problem here is your entirely trusting the company is returning exactly the extraction amount prescribed in total. I'm currently looking to contract a small refiner for these purposes with no luck yet. I still have buckets of unknowns that at best will net me a buck a pound.
Full article at Scrap Metal Forum: http://www.scrapmetalforum.com/day-l...#ixzz3ApSncDzC



It seems to me as long as you
don't but silver currency
and only generic silver
there is no gain to be taxed on
Flipping scrap for silver
OR having cash in hand
for a second might be all it takes to be taxable regardless of Flip .


Example
you have a house - you sell & as long as you purchase new home or real estate , no tax on gain .

Scrap is an asset . Silver is an asset .
Wile yes - massive amounts China banks have lent money on Copper as collateral ( Copper can be an Asset )
Scrap is an Asset .
To answer my own question , Getting paid with generic silver - Barter - would be the answer .

Every time I go to the scrap yard, I suffer a devastating financial loss. I am forced, due to government orchestrated economic conditions, to sell quantities of extremely valuable stockpiled inventory to the closest buyer, at fire sale prices. That person then is able to realize the full value of the items I must, regrettably, liquidate.

Let me start by saying that I am not a tax expert.

I have always wondered if the sale of scrap metal could be considered a capital gain as opposed to ordinary income. Everything I have found says no. If it could be, you would probably save a considerable sum in self employment tax.

With regards to the second part of the question, you would have to read up on IRS Section 1031 Like-Kind Exchanges. My gut feeling is that this wouldn't work, but I may be wrong.

As far as I understand it, and I am not a tax expert by any means.
Barters are taxed based on assessed value of goods or services and must be reported.
any time you sell and get cash or scrap/ pm's it is supposed to be reported and taxed. even if you hold it for 1 second.
Lucrative, yes... Honesty is better if you ever get a red flag on your report (been there)
My .02

You know when a individual buys more then $1000 worth of silver no tax has to be paid on silver purchase . Regardles

From IRS info

Like-Kind Exchanges Under IRC Code Section 1031

1031 does not apply to exchanges of:

Inventory or stock in trade

Stocks, bonds, or notes

Other securities or debt

Partnership interests

Certificates of trust


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Now if you had land - built a dwelling - of Stainless steel - Copper - Brass - sell it .
Could you then buy silver to build a silver storage shed on new land . That be a nice shed to store some Gold .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Copper Head

Now if you had land - built a dwelling - of Stainless steel - Copper - Brass - sell it .
Could you then buy silver to build a silver storage shed on new land . That be a nice shed to store some Gold .

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yes you could if you really wanted to.
There are two words in here that uncle sam wants to see... Sell It..... right then and there he's got ya.;)

Last time I checked the Internal Revenue (dis)Service is a branch of the Federal Reserve which is a PRIVATE ENTITY, in no way a part of the United States Government, but is a part of the Bank of England. They owe me some change with interest. And penalty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by t00nces2

Every time I go to the scrap yard, I suffer a devastating financial loss. I am forced, due to government orchestrated economic conditions, to sell quantities of extremely valuable stockpiled inventory to the closest buyer, at fire sale prices. That person then is able to realize the full value of the items I must, regrettably, liquidate.

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I feel the same way , What we sell is extremely valuable .
I've seen my boss purchase steel for repair work on a truck , and the reality hits when a 5 foot by 18 inch plate of steel I could pick up with minimal strain is $230 .
Sure there is manufacturing cost - but heck , fire sale prices paid to me also .

Not a tax person, but here is what I do and being a company owner, I have to do by law.

All items I have, I have to put a value on it a "assessed value" as someone else said. This price can be if you had to call someone right now and sell it right now and all costs to sell it right then value. So you can "charge" labor, trucking fees, storage and other things like that onto the "account" of the items you have in stock. Also with scrap, you can use the lowest value as its NOT your job to find the best price for the assessed value and in the e-waste biz...that's not very hard, Just because you sold it for more dealing with this or that person does not mean it COULD not of sold to X person for X amount.

Also during the year you can record mileage spent looking for the items (fuel, wear and tear and ect) labor costs, tools and trailer costs and everything else.

There is a lot that goes into it when talking about taxes and depending on how much you are making/spending you may want to talk to accountant. A good accountant can add up market loss/gain during the year as prices go up and down and what you had in stock so if you sell when market is down that COULD be counted as a loss in profits and with this year being as it was and prices dropping across the board...but like I said...need a GOOD accountant..

P.s if anything is ever stolen you can assess a high value of what IT COULD of been sold for (not fair market, along with time down dealing with that/damaged it caused you of loss profit).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by easyrecycle

Not a tax person, but here is what I do and being a company owner, I have to do by law.

All items I have, I have to put a value on it a "assessed value" as someone else said. This price can be if you had to call someone right now and sell it right now and all costs to sell it right then value. So you can "charge" labor, trucking fees, storage and other things like that onto the "account" of the items you have in stock. Also with scrap, you can use the lowest value as its NOT your job to find the best price for the assessed value and in the e-waste biz...that's not very hard, Just because you sold it for more dealing with this or that person does not mean it COULD not of sold to X person for X amount.

Also during the year you can record mileage spent looking for the items (fuel, wear and tear and ect) labor costs, tools and trailer costs and everything else.

There is a lot that goes into it when talking about taxes and depending on how much you are making/spending you may want to talk to accountant. A good accountant can add up market loss/gain during the year as prices go up and down and what you had in stock so if you sell when market is down that COULD be counted as a loss in profits and with this year being as it was and prices dropping across the board...but like I said...need a GOOD accountant..

P.s if anything is ever stolen you can assess a high value of what IT COULD of been sold for (not fair market, along with time down dealing with that/damaged it caused you of loss profit).

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Stephen,

Thank you for chiming in. It is good to have the prespective from someone that ran a good size legit company for a few years. Bottom line here, is that if you are at all unsure on taxes and consequences of actions when running your scrap business, it is best to consult an accountant or tax preparer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by t00nces2

Every time I go to the scrap yard, I suffer a devastating financial loss. I am forced, due to government orchestrated economic conditions, to sell quantities of extremely valuable stockpiled inventory to the closest buyer, at fire sale prices. That person then is able to realize the full value of the items I must, regrettably, liquidate.

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Sounds like me when I sell at auction .

"But I brought this CRT tv in 1992 for $1499 and last week I scrapped it and sold the copper in it for $6.
That's a $1493 LOSS!"

Other option.. take your silver overseas and sell it there. How would that work out?
I dunno much about taxs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eesakiwi

............Other option.. take your silver overseas and sell it there. How would that work out?
I dunno much about taxs.

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That would be called money laundering as your moving moneys outside of the usa to avoid paying taxes and then you have to sneak it past the IRS and not declare that you are moving money in and out of the USA. When ever I move items in our out of the USA I have to account for every dime if the IRS ever wanted to eat me alive. So the only real way to have money off shore and get it back in the USA and not have the IRS know....is by having it mailed to you in cash, lie on the customs forms and hope they don't check it and say its some small item worth $100 bucks or something.

P.s its a felony crime (forget what class) when you try to skip on paying taxes that are owed then you can try to fight it in court and who knows at what costs trying to say the IRS can't tax you and blah blah blah and you most likely will lose. Sometimes you have to pick your battles and have a good accountant who knows the laws of the IRS and reports your profits well but document the losses even better.

I am working on offering our accounting department to do accounting under my one company at a flat rate and will keep you out of jail but that is something I don't have set up yet but will be apart of the Microlending Servicing llc (we are a servicing company for auto loans but have a large accounting department for all the laws we have to follow as a lender) so it would work in my favor to also use the same department to make a profit during the month an make some side change but anyone who would like to learn more on that just send me a pm.

Still working on my website but there is so much that has to go into it to make it work how I want it one and to make sure its legal...fun stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eesakiwi

"But I brought this CRT tv in 1992 for $1499 and last week I scrapped it and sold the copper in it for $6.
That's a $1493 LOSS!"

Other option.. take your silver overseas and sell it there. How would that work out?
I dunno much about taxs.

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Sorry that does not work. The IRS says anything that was bought for self use is not something you can add as a company or self working pay so because it was used in your house for home use it can't be counted as a taxable item. On top of that the IRS says if you want to get tax credit you have to have accounting on the items use (from truck to a hand tool) and each year the item value is less due to it getting older, after it hits it "max term" in short...you can no longer have it as a company costs. So.....doing something like that is begging for a audit...an they will be in your **** like flys to poop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soobthang

Last time I checked the Internal Revenue (dis)Service is a branch of the Federal Reserve(No its not, not even close)which is a PRIVATE ENTITY(No it's not, it was established by CONGRESS and it's an independent organization that is subject to oversight by CONGRESS, in no way a part of the United States Government, but is a part of the Bank of England(whaaa???). They owe me some change with interest. And penalty.

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See my comments in red :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Copper Head

You know when a individual buys more then $1000 worth of silver no tax has to be paid on silver purchase . Regardles

From IRS info

Like-Kind Exchanges Under IRC Code Section 1031

1031 does not apply to exchanges of:

Inventory or stock in trade

Stocks, bonds, or notes

Other securities or debt

Partnership interests

Certificates of trust


---------------------------

Now if you had land - built a dwelling - of Stainless steel - Copper - Brass - sell it .
Could you then buy silver to build a silver storage shed on new land . That be a nice shed to store some Gold .

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This depends where you are at. Last September a law was passed here in Texas (or nationwide, I do not remember which) that basically states the $1000 rule is not longer in effect. You can go to a coin shop now and buy one silver dime if you wanted to (about $1.60) and you would NOT have to pay taxes. I have gone in several times this year to buy a roll of silver quarters, and have not paid any sales tax.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wayne1956

This depends where you are at. Last September a law was passed here in Texas (or nationwide, I do not remember which) that basically states the $1000 rule is not longer in effect. You can go to a coin shop now and buy one silver dime if you wanted to (about $1.60) and you would NOT have to pay taxes. I have gone in several times this year to buy a roll of silver quarters, and have not paid any sales tax.

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The $1000 rule was based on generic silver coins , bars . Non currency silver