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I thought this might be of interest to those who are curious how e-waste is generally processed by the large recycling companies.
I hope at sometime in the future to have a system like this in place. I think I'm more than a few years away from doing anything remotely close to this, but it is something I would like to move into.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i48XaeO_vU
Scott
I'm guessing they take the bins at the end, and then soak them in acid, etc much like the processes used for fingers?
Looks like expensive machinery that you need to run 24/7.
that takes all the fun out of it. lol.
When you are dealing with metals on a large scale, pyrometallurgy is used to melt the metals into bars, then they are subjected to electrochemistry to plate out copper, what is left at the anode is called anode slimes, which are your precious metals, which are then processed further with acids.Quote:
Originally Posted by BumpRacerX
Scott
that was so cool! thanks! I was a little confused though at how that works at the end - where it separates copper from aluminum. Are the two items going through the same screen? how is the machine telling the difference and separating them as they dont stick to a magnet?
That is a cool video. It's just another example of how the rich get richer. I don't see how a setup like this wouldn't easily be in excess of 1 million to start up.
It probably sorts by mass as all of the pieces are the same size. Not sure if this is what it's doing, but for example aluminum and copper bits of the same size go down a shoot, the aluminum would not travel as far as the copper after leaving the shoot. Put one bin closer to collect the aluminum, and one farther to collect the copper.Quote:
Originally Posted by newattitude
It's actually fairly sophisticated, if you watch you can see magnetic separation that pulls some of the material as it falls enough so that it doesn't stick to the electromagnet, but it's pulled into a different bin and the material that isn't magnetic. Then there are blowers that separate by air, that blow the lighter material to separate from the heavier material into different bins. In this way ferrous is separated from non-ferrous and plastics, paper, insulation is separated from metals, etc. This is done over and over all through the system so that you end up with ferrous metals, non ferrous metals, plastics, papers, insulation, and different sizes.Quote:
Originally Posted by rawresale
I'm not sure of the cost, but I do know someone who owns similar equipment that cost him 2.7 mil for the entire line, and he's talking about putting in a second one. He has more material to process than he is capable of, and has several tons collecting each day in his yard.
When you consider that here in the US we currently recycle less than 20% of e-waste, it seems like a great business to be in.
Scott
I agree 110%.Quote:
Originally Posted by NobleMetalWorks
We are a throw away, comsuming society. So here we are...
Same or similar process from the shred pile at my local scrapyard, not just e-waste.
Around here the e-waste (I mean computers specifically) get seperated manually, not all of it mind you, some small companies up here are doing alot. Shipping straight to refineries by the gaylord.
Whole computers going through the shredder seems too easy
If I had 2.7 million...I'd have one going. LOL.
Reminds me of the bigbluebox someone posted a few months back. Ah well..maybe in the future..or when I win that powerball. :P
Thanks again for the post Scott. Always interesting.
Sirscrapalot - dream big or go home.
I was wondering about that. The buyers on here, are they shipping whole laptops directly to the refineries? Desktop/towers are easy to rip apart, but laptops are labor intensive. With the machinery in the video, I could see just shipping in a whole Gaylord of laptops, and letting the machine do the work.
While its true that the "rich get richer", dont forget that it also provides plenty of jobs to those of us that just need to pay bills. There will always be the rich and the poor amongst us, but the majority will be typical working class guys. But ya, i wish it were my setup :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantoms001
I'm not sure of the cost, but I do know someone who owns similar equipment that cost him 2.7 mil for the entire line, and he's talking about putting in a second one. He has more material to process than he is capable of, and has several tons collecting each day in his yard. <<
considering that the return per ton is less with each new generation of circuit board(s) can an additional line be justified?
there was a report a few months ago that dealt with the elimination of plating of the majority of previously plated corrosion areas. the life of many consumable items has dropped to a point where corrosion is not as big an issue as in the past. IF, that was to become the norm for a large number of consumables, would it even be feasible to process what would be extremely low recovery boards.
a comparison of circuit boards produced from 2005 up to previous , 10 year increment, versions of similar circuit boards shows a remarkable drop in recoverable material.
IF, the above becomes a given, would you be better off investing that 2.7 in some other venture?
Yield goes down, metal prices go up (less recovery in recycled material, mining costs skyrocket) end result is about the same. What I want to know is how many years it takes to pay the equipment off, basically that tells you if the investment is worth it or not. That machine isn't for grinding gold cap CPUs up, so gold prices can't be the driving force.
There has to be a ton of money in old trash dumps waiting to be dug up and run through machines like that.
In 2005 gold was on average 444.74 per ounce. The technology in gold plating has not improved very much since 2005, matter of fact the ISO 9000 specs have not changed at all, yet today gold is worth around $1600.00 per ounce. Contrary to what you might believe, it has become even more lucrative, by about 4 times as lucrative to recover the gold from electronics.Quote:
Originally Posted by rbrooks715
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/56505223/Re...old_prices.pdf
I read a lot, every day, here is one of the books that pertain to plating that I have recently read, if anyone wants to know more about plating technology this would be a good book to read:
Amazon.com: Modern electro plating. The principles involved in depositing gold, silver, nickel, copper, brass and other metals, by means of batteries or dynamos; ... of plating baths, chemicals used, etc: James Henry Van Horne: Books
There is currently a serious silver shortage:
The Silver Shortage Of 2013
Even though people are purchasing far less they are still purchasing more electronics than ever before, per person. How many people do you know have a home computer, a laptop, an iPad and a smart phone for example. How many cars can you purchase without a computer system. How often do people buy new plasma TVs and how many does each household own on average? When I was a kid, having one TV was the norm, two was rich, today if every family member doesn't have a flat screen TV there is something wrong, silver and gold consumption and use in industry has continued to increase against consumer sales, and consumer sales have consistently increased in the area of electronics. Even if tomorrow electronics used half as much precious metals, the fact we only recycle less than 20% and the fact that so many people are buying so much more electronics, would still make this industry a massive growth industry.
http://www.gfms.co.uk/media_advisori...esentation.pdf
Mining for precious metals has drastically increased, and still there is such a huge demand for precious metals, that over 40% of the silver sold in the US comes from recycled sources, and that's only going to increase.
I think another thing people do not think about or realize is that we now use more electronics per person than we did in 2005, more in 2005 than 2000, and more in 2000 than years prior. Every year people use more electronics that are more complication and use more precious and rare earth metals than years prior.
Even the newest technology to hit the scene, graphene, uses silver:
Highly Conductive and Flexible Paper of 1D Silver-Nanowire-Doped Graphene - ACS Applied Materials & Interfaces (ACS Publications)
However, even though this technology has been around for awhile now, you will not see it's use in any electronics. There is a very good reason for this. The cost benefit for industry to tool up is not there. It would cost far too much to tool up, train people, purchase the materials than what is currently being used today. This fact will continue far into the future, we are not going to see these new technologies used anytime soon. But regardless if they are, silver is still going to be used, along with gold, platinum, palladium, rhodium and rare earth minerals. In your smart phone touchscreen alone there are 4 types of rare earth minerals used.
We are currently only recycling less than 20% of the electronic waste produced in this country. I stated this above. Where is the rest going? Into some landfills, some over seas, some is just sitting around. If we ever ran out of electronics to process (which will not be the case, but I'm playing devils advocate here) there are always the landfills that have been accumulating all kinds of metals for the last 200+ years.
I think another thing that we are missing here, is that this system I posted not only separates out non ferrous (precious metals) but also ferrous metals, plastics, fibers, etc. Even if there were no electronics or e-scrap to process, this same equipment would be used for all kinds of mixed metal/plastic consumer scrap.
There is also a huge developing demand for precious metals in things like clothing, because of the antibacterial qualities of silver, it's now being woven into clothing:
Aches & Claims: Copper and Silver Infused Products for Fighting Germs - WSJ.com
Gold is being used in cancer treatments:
MU News Bureau | MU News Bureau
HowStuffWorks "Nanotechnology Cancer Treatments"
I have read, and discussed this subject so many times with people who truly believe that electronics recycling is going to be a dying industry. I totally disagree, regardless what type of precious metals, or how much precious metals are in electronics, the profit margin will always be there. Electronics are always going to be produced, and if not for precious metals then for the other metals like copper, aluminum, tin, lead, steel, iron, nickel and the list goes on and on. Even if all metals were removed from electronics there is still plastic, silicon and whatever other materials are used to create electronics. People will always be selling e-scrap, and people who recycle it will always buy for prices that allow them to make a profit. This industry is not dying, it's increasing, it's a wide open market with less than 20% of it's potential currently being taken advantage of, with more electronics being sold every year than the year prior.
Also more precious metals are used in industry every year than the year prior, it's been this way for a very long time and honestly I don't see it ending anytime soon.
Also, precious metals are not used in electronics because of corrosion, they are used because of their ability to conduct electricity better than any other material. Gold does not conduct electricity as well as silver, and copper even less. Gold is used instead of silver not because of corrosion, but because of oxidation. As silver oxidizes, it builds up resistance. Gold does not react with oxygen in our environment (gold does not tarnish, it's not a reactive metal) but copper and silver do oxidize (tarnish), so gold is plated over copper and used instead of silver. However, as I posted above, the new technologies will use graphene/silver instead of gold, which will dramatically drive up the price of silver considering that there is less silver in the world than gold, and silver is already in short supply. The demand to recycle silver will only increase, not decrease, as I posted above 40% of the silver supply in the US comes from recycled sources.
Scott
It's not always about the gold, I see alot of things going in that machine that can be sold, aluminum,steel,plastic,brass,copper just to name a few. By the way I want one of those machines for christmas so start saving your money.:lol:
You're right, it's not always about the gold, and as much as I talk about silver, it's not always about the silver. Sometimes it's about recycling material to be re-used, re-purposed, and the value/profit of that type of material. The money spent on investment in equipment like in the video, would generate a nice steady income stream for anyone able to invest in equipment of this type. It's really simple math, if you are able to take a business loan out against the equipment over a 30 year period of time, I'm sure with steady operating, their would be a substantial profit to be made against the monthly payment on the loan.Quote:
Originally Posted by happyscraper
Anyway, good point!
Scott
According to Weird Al, it's all about the Pentiums, not the Gold or Silver.
In 2005 gold was on average 444.74 per ounce. The technology in gold plating has not improved very much since 2005, matter of fact the ISO 9000 specs have not changed at all, yet today gold is worth around $1600.00 per ounce. Contrary to what you might believe, it has become even more lucrative, by about 4 times as lucrative to recover the gold from electronics. <<
while the price has increased, the yield is what i am discussing. yield continues to drop, due to the smaller amount of pm being used in circuit boards, while the cost to recover that smaller yield is increasing.
Gold is used instead of silver not because of corrosion, but because of oxidation. As silver oxidizes, it builds up resistance. <<
corrosion. electrical circuit. anything that interferes with the completion of a electrical circuit. oxidation is a form of corrosion.
this is not about the numerous uses we now have that employ circuit boards. IF, the boards were to no longer having any pm for corrosion, there would not be enough yield from base metals to justify the processing of end of life material.
There is currently a serious silver shortage: <<
you are right. yet the market has not reacted to that at this time.
the dell motherboard failure. hp to a lesser amount. all caused by the lack of properly plated mating surfaces and minimal solder traces. the traces failed under load due to heat. the mating surfaces failed from corrosion.
while both company's replaced mb's under warranty along with a bit of bad media, it has been shown that the majority of failed computers were simply replaced at the consumers expense.
the point, if the manufacturers can continue to sell their products using 'cheaper' ( less pm or the elimination of pm plating) then the recovery rate of those pm's will drop accordingly.
industrial standards have not dropped off to the same extent. but there are far fewer of those boards in circulation and they are not replaced as often.
the volume of circuit boards in use has increased. dramatically. over the past 35 years. which is not, does not, equate to an over all aggregate increase in pm usage in relation to the volume of product increase.
which takes me back to my original question. is a 3 million dollar investment to increase processing capability's a viable investment.
or more simply put. what is the cap rate of the project.