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The "Star Trek" universe.

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  1. #1
    ChildhoodDream started this thread.
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    The "Star Trek" universe.

    Do Star Trek officers get paid?

    No money in the Federation! ... So, if in their time Starfleet officers are not paid a salary,
    that doesn't mean they don't know what money is and what it's used for!

    How does the Federation economy work?



    What is the economic system of the Star Trek Federation?...In the Federation, they have methods of producing functionally infinite energy, and they have replicators, which can convert energy into matter in any form and material they desire instantly. Thus, there are few if any material wants in Star Trek.

    Could we live in a society without money?

    In such a society, there would be
    no human governments as those would not work because in such a system the contest for power and greed and thus the concept of money/wealth will always be there. ... No monetary or other compensation would be provided since none is needed in such a society.

    Can a society work without money?

    Humanity and money have been together for so long, we can't conceive what society would look like without it. Common belief suggests no civilization can survive without a thriving economy. Economies can not function without a viable exchange medium. ... Eliminating money from civilization is a grave issue.

    The Federation did away with currency, and for the most part a Starfleet Officer would never need currency because what would they do with it on a Starship? Shore leave would most often occur on Starfleet installations or Federation planets, again negating the need for any form of currency. But for people serving on neutral bases such as Deep Space Nine or serving as attaches for other Alpha/Beta Quadrant powers they would be disadvantaged without access to Latinum. All of the entertainment spaces I can think of except the Replimat on DS9 would have required some form of payment.
    You never see anyone paying for something at Quarks, so it is possible Quark had an arrangement with Starfleet to either pay a tab directly, or to trade goods for services. But then you see Dax playing Tongo with Quark and using Latinum so at some point she acquired some either by trading goods for services or by receiving some sort of Starfleet salary. I wondered if it was perhaps play money, but Ezri references Quark owing Jadzia Latinum after she joins the crew and I assume there is more evidence that they were playing with real Latinum.

    Last edited by ChildhoodDream; 12-27-2020 at 05:21 PM.

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    t00nces2's Avatar
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    Star Trek is make believe, just like a cashless society. Our rancher leaders are going to try to digitize money and make a cashless society, but I have a feeling it will fail. There will be something the people will use for currency amongst themselves.

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    ChildhoodDream started this thread.
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    I agree, but this world has many dreamers that don't know how to do the proper maths.

    I might add more to the post as I find it.

    You know, the "real" Star Trek life.

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    I recommend David Graeber's book "Debt: The First 5000 Years" for a great historical overview of money, its historical developments and cashless and credit societies around the world throughout history. The examples Graeber provides go into a lot more depth than the Star Trek shows do about the Federation economy (tho prolly not the books!). The Federation is vaguely post-capitalism but in using the Borg as a stand-in for the USSR it's clearly not any kind of collectivist society and retains some kind of private property (think of Picard's vineyard and chateau for example) so is less post-capitalist than it purports to be. Graeber's book is far more concrete lol and is incredibly interesting. The business papers like the Economist and Financial Times all gave it stellar reviews

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    ChildhoodDream started this thread.
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    I'm watching/listening to "Debt: The First 5000 Years | David Graeber | Talks at Google"

    It's over an hour so I will be busy for a bit with that.




    Well I watched/listened to it and found it very interesting.

    I talk much the same but at a slower pace as I'm not a hyper person.

    I noticed that David kept picking up his cup as he was thirsty, but he was so into what he was talking about that he would just sit it back down in front of him. It was almost a full hour before he took a sip. I also noticed that he had some bottles of beverages on the chair behind him.

    I have most always had a supply of drinking water with me where ever I am. When younger I used a plastic baby bottle like a canteen until they got me a small canteen.

    I watched/listened to it on You Tube without any interruptions.
    Last edited by ChildhoodDream; 12-28-2020 at 12:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChildhoodDream View Post
    I watched/listened to it on You Tube without any interruptions.
    Did you avail yourself of YT Premium? I heard it's not worth it to avail.

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  12. #7
    ChildhoodDream started this thread.
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    I don't sign in or such. Just watch the stuff that they allow and put up with the ads when they have them.

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    I'm not really seeing anything about Star Trek that maps out what a future economy would look like. When they do talk about money it's just used as what they call a " plot device."

    Here's a quickie definition of what a plot device is:

    A plot device or plot mechanism is any technique in a narrative used to move the plot forward. A clichéd plot device may annoy the reader and a contrived or arbitrary device may confuse the reader, causing a loss of the suspension of disbelief.

    ----------------------------------------------------------


    See ... the main problem here is that they couldn't keep their story straight. A few examples:

    1: The Federation uses credits:

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Federation_credit

    2: Art imitates life and later on in the series they're talking about a meritocracy because that's a popular thing with the far left intelligentsia these days.

    https://www.wired.com/2016/05/geeks-...rek-economics/

    3: The Ferengi are a caricature of today's capitalists. (They are usually painted in a negative light.) They use a hard currency called gold pressed latinum.

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Latinum

    Bottom Line:

    I don't think you can tell anything about what future economic systems would look like from the Star Trek series. I think it does tell something about the writers of the show and where their heads are at though.

    It's more likely that they are center left progressive types.

    On the opposite side of the coin ... you've got stories like " Atlas Shrugged " that expound the virtues of Capitalism. It was a fantasy story that was hugely popular back in the day.

    Lol .... anyway ... time to get to work.

    I owe .. I owe .. so off to work i go !

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    ChildhoodDream started this thread.
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    I don't believe that the "Star Trek monetary system" would work at all, BUT there are many that do as they are "way out there", simply put.

    Buy one and get two free.

    The "realm" of gambling is very popular and vast.

    I may not play games of chance or play the stock markets and such.

    But I sort of take a gamble on my personal investments going up.

    Most have been and very few haven't so far.

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    Useless fact: Gold pressed latinum was the currency used in DS9 to buy Synthehol at Quarks bar. Gold pressed latinum was in The Next Generation also. Danm Ferengie lol

    EDIT: I seen Hills mentioned this already. Beg my pard
    Last edited by greytruck; 12-28-2020 at 10:07 AM.

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