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Ounce of gold from ceremic processors - Page 2

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  1. #21
    BarrenRealms007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NobleMetalWorks View Post
    Honestly, you would have to ask Barren. I know for a fact, beyond a doubt, without any reservations that the Pentium Pro's only yield on average .33 grams of Au. This is a fairly well known fact on GRF. All you have to do is google Pentium Pro Gold Refining Forum to come up with a huge number of posts on the subject. It's one of the most sought after, and misrepresented material that individual refiners deal with. They are almost mythical. People see that huge CPU with the huge gold plated heat spreader and loose all reason. They regularly sell on ebay for far more than their actual value. Matter of fact, if you pay attention to the CPUs on ebay, you will notice the same pictures of the same CPUs being sold by different people. They are used as a commodity really.

    Imagine this, buying gold coins or bars on ebay is a very iffy proposition. Some people will drill, and fill with lead and/or tungsten to approximate the same density/weight that gold has. However, it's very difficult to fake a CPU. And the value is perceived where a gold bar or coin is not a perceived value, but exact, or at least as close as you can get. Because of these reasons, people buy and sell them as the price of gold goes up or down. They are traded back and forth like a commodity. So the actual value is far different.

    To be honest, I am not so sure Barren is refining any of the CPUs he's buying, I would suspect, because of posts made by him on GRF and conversations I have had with other refiners and customers that Barren is selling them on ebay, and not refining them. However, I only suspect and to be fair to Barren, I don't actually know what he is doing with the CPUs. I can tell you this however, at $17 each, he's not refining them and making any money. I know that for a fact and would stake my reputation as a Man, as a refiner and as a human being on that statement, without any reservation whatsoever.

    If done correctly, and you are able to purchase your consumables at decent prices, meaning you have to have a business license and purchase acids in 55 gallon drums, you can probably work the cost per CPU below .50 cents.

    Scott
    Gold, gold, gold. When people see gold they get tunnel vision. Are you not realizing there are other products in the PP? Silver and the copper bearing tungsten heat spreader.

    No I do not process every chip that comes thru my place. I have other markets that I can move some of my material. Ebay is not one of them, I sell nothing thru Ebay at this time. I get to pick and choose what I process.

    Scott you say you are doing a batch of PP how about you post what your returns are for the gold, silver, copper and any other marketable product from the chip.

    You can rage from .31g to .44g per chip in gold return.

    If I'm loosing money and I keep my refining cost very low and get rid of the middle men. How are other buyers paying more than me and justifying it?



    I generaly do not reveal what yields I get on material because it can vary from batch to batch and what I get might not be what someone else gets. There is enough of that information on the GRF that everyone can search for.
    We buy electronic scrap, Gold Karat scrap, gold filled, refined gold, silver and many other item's.


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by NobleMetalWorks View Post
    Actually there are 31.1 grams to a troy ounce, precious metals are most often measured by troy ounce. So...

    so it would be 31.1 / .33 = 94.242424 etc or between 95-95 CPUs. I always figured 100 CPUs per ounce so make sure I figured with a buffer when I was buying large quantities of them. But I think you get the point. It takes far more Pentium Pro's to make an ounce than is generally believed.

    Gold plating on pins and/or CPUs is generally between 10-30 micro inches in thickness.

    Lets just use this as an example, to explain how much it takes to make a full gram of gold with that type of thickness. I am just shooting ballpark here.

    So lets say we have 100 square inches. That seems like a lot. Now multiply that by 30 micro inches, then subtract the correct amount for 22k because gold plating is 22k not 24k unless it's a very special application, the reason for this is because 24k gold tends to smear. Anyway, that 100 square micro inches of 22k gold is about .948 grams. Valued at today's spot prices at about $50-$52 dollars, somewhere in there.

    You can use this online gold plating calculator to figure it out for yourselves:

    Gold Plating Calculator

    Once you realize how very little gold there actually is, it puts everything else into perspective. This is exactly the reason why I stopped toll refining. You cannot tell people that the gold in their material is actually far less than what they believe it is. No matter how many times you attempt to explain it, no matter how much effort you put into your argument, when it comes to gold people stop thinking, their brain shuts down and this dormant part of your brain takes the drivers seat. It's as if it's this phantom part of the mind that never shows itself until the eyes see gold, then everything else that is thought of in regards to gold after that point, makes no sense at all.

    I had a prospector ask me to run some material for him, so I did it free of charge just for kicks to see if there was anything in his ore. There was a lot of something, iron, but no precious metals. I did this for free mind you. I did a complete fire assay at my own expense and didn't ask for anything in return. He cursed me out, told me I didn't know what I was doing, that nobody believes him, it was so strange, he turned into this totally different person. He knocked the little ball of iron I had recovered into his own car, totally off his rocker. But that's just how it is. People that see gold will see it no matter who says what to them. These people are often preyed upon, on ebay. They are told all kinds of numbers and wonderful things that just simply are not true. In the past I used to complain to ebay about them, or message the people directly and tell them to correct their auction, but it's a difficult thing for ebay to enforce or for anyone to actually say. You see, people generally do not know how much gold is in CPUs. But there is this document floating around that each has one gram, probably propagated by someone who was selling Pentium Pro's. There are many different places you find the same exact list. It's probably one of the Internets biggies lies. I wouldn't be surprised one day if someone doesn't write something about it to be honest. It's even referred to by popular and well respected periodicals, it's insane. So it makes it even more difficult to tell anyone that Pentium Pros don't have 1 gram each. I don't know why they don't just simply ask Intel.

    Anyway, sorry about the rant. It's just one of those things that bother people who have or still do refine this type of material.

    Scott

    Actually, I learned about all these things hereThe Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948) - IMDb

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  4. #23
    NobleMetalWorks's Avatar
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    Barren,

    I would rather discuss this via private message.

    I would like to remind you that you, and I and 3 other refiners on GRF were each given 1lb of sim cards to run as a test. Yes I was one of the refiners who was involved in that. Matter of fact, if the person who sent you the lb of those sim cards will still speak with you, ask him who had the better results.

    I have processed a lot of Pentium Pros, I posted my yield data, an average of .33 per CPU and I stand by that. I would like to know where you were able to recover any silver, if you are talking about what is alloyed with the gold to make it 22k instead of 24k then I would really like to know how many processors you had to refine to get an amount of silver you could recover. If that is the silver content you are talking about then that would mean we are talking about .02 grams per CPU. That means if you ran 100 Pentium Pro CPUs you would get 2 grams of silver worth about $2.00. I fail to see how that adds enough value to justify what you seem to be paying for these CPUs.

    I would like to know exactly where you think there is recoverable silver in Pentium Pro's that would make it worth your while, in lots under 100, to even attempt to recover it. And as far as the copper is concerned, do I even need to do the math on that?

    The top heat spreader is in fact made of tungsten and copper, but seeing how copper is worth even less than silver, I would like to know how you figure this adds any real refining value to the entire value of a Pentium Pro.

    You also didn't mention the second heat spreader or what it's made of. But again, there is no real value in it.

    For anyone who would like to know more on the technical aspects of a Pentium Pro processor. Here is the .PDF from the horses mouth so to speak. This document came directly from Intel. You can call Intel and either be sent a download link, or pay for the link to get specifications on any of their processors. Here is a good .PDF on Pentium Pro's, matter of fact this is THE document from Intel themselves. I also have the PDF on the plastic package Pentium Pro nobody ever talks about, it's heat spreader is actually made out of Aluminum.

    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/56505223/Re...s/24269001.pdf

    Mind you however there is slight differences in the Pentium Pros that can make a tiny bit of difference, but not in the range of .33 - .44. That's just not even within the realm of what is possible. It might mean the difference between .33 and .34 if that. The difference is so small as to be difficult to measure even in large lots. Average would still be .33. If you are getting .44 it means your drop was dirty and you have a lot of other metals involved. Period! They didn't just slather gold on these CPUs willy nilly, it is a fairly exact science and although there are some variances, they are not measurable, not in the way you are suggesting.

    If you are refining dirty, and not properly separating the Gold from other metals when you precipitate gold from dirty solutions, then you are dragging down other metals that add weight to your final product/button. That is why, if you are not removing the gold plated heat spreader on the top, and dissolving the tungsten along with everything else, it's better to extract the gold using an organic solvent than it is trying to drop with SMB, or even to selectively precipitate with something else that ignores the tungsten and precipitates the gold anyway. If there is tungsten present, and you do not recover the gold properly, you will still have gold in solution and if you dispose of it, you will be essentially throwing it away. If you are precipitating gold in the presence of tungsten, copper and the metals that make of Kovar, will happily be dragged down with the gold, but gold will be left behind as well.

    And if you would like to discuss the other little tiny issue Barren, I am more than happy to set you straight on that as well. For those that are reading this, I apologize if I sound a little gruff in this response, it's not my intent to make other people look bad, however, at no time will I allow certain people to question my refining skills when I already know implicitly about their own.

    Scott
    Last edited by NobleMetalWorks; 01-03-2013 at 05:06 PM.
    At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new. This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

  5. #24
    BRASSCATCHER's Avatar
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    Interesting.....Thank you Scott
    I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. John Wayne-- The Shootist

    NEWBS READ THIS THREAD ABOUT REFINING!!!!
    http://www.scrapmetalforum.com/off-t...ning-read.html

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  7. #25
    NobleMetalWorks's Avatar
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    Thanks Brasscatcher,

    I don't want to sound grumpy, or uncompromising, I hold my tongue on a lot of threads, but there are just some things that get under my skin I have a harder time ignoring than others. I hope what I post on this thread is useful, and doesn't just come across as me being a jerk, or making me seem I feel I'm a know-it-all. I have really learned a lot on this forum so far. But on something I am positive about, I rather correct the misrepresentations or interpretations as I feel in the end, if everyone knows the true values, people will deal with each other more fairly.

    On this type of material I don't hide my results, I would be telling them to whoever I was toll refining for anyway, if I still did that sort of thing. I don't see any point being secretive about this type of information. I get a lot of grief from other refiners on this point, but I just simply don't see how me keeping that information secretive is going to help me grow my business in the way I want.

    That's not to say it isn't hard won information, and it's not to say I am going to be posting all my yield data just because I did work very hard to accumulate it, but on threads like this I feel it's more important to be open about the yields, so the truth might be discovered.

    I really hope that what I posts helps people, and doesn't do any harm.

    Scott

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  9. #26
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    I know info like helps me decide who to send stuff to. I am a numbers guy and its not about me getting paid the most from this person or the most from that person. Its more of a curiousity at this point of whats actualy in this stuff. Like how much is a pound of gold figered ram really worth refined? I know the refiner I use for the boards its not worth me sending the ram too so I send it to a buyer here on the forum.

  10. #27
    NobleMetalWorks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    It takes 84 Pentium Pros to get an ounce of gold? (.33=basically 1/3, so 3 per gram, 28 grams to an ounce, so 3x28 = 84)
    I have to apologize for the way I answered your question. I say things real blunt and matter of fact, and when responding in a thread on a forum like this, I forget to emote I am being cut and dry, and instead I sound like a know-it-all and kind of snotty. I didn't mean for it to sound that way.

    Unless you are dealing with precious metals and buying/selling on a regular basis, you probably wouldn't know that precious metals are measured by the troy ounce, and not avoirdupois ounce. There are 14 troy ounces to a lb, and 16 avoirdupois ounces. It makes it confusing when buying and selling gold bearing material. There are some people who are unscrupulous and will weigh your material based on whatever measurement allows them to steal from you. If you have ever talked with a gold buyer in a mall, they usually measure by penny weight for this exact same reason. Penny weight is not a normal measurement people would run into. It's not even the way most legit precious metal buyer/sellers deal with. It's just another way of leading you to believe you are getting a better deal that you are.

    Anyway, I apologize Bear, for the way my answer sounded, that's not how I intended it.

    Scott

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  12. #28
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    Now im going to sound like a know it all. I thought there were 12 troy ounces in a troy pound and 14.58 troy ounces in a pound.

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    It actually made no difference to me at all whether it was a simple ounce, or an avoirdupois, I used that merely as an example


    Quote Originally Posted by NobleMetalWorks View Post
    I have to apologize for the way I answered your question. I say things real blunt and matter of fact, and when responding in a thread on a forum like this, I forget to emote I am being cut and dry, and instead I sound like a know-it-all and kind of snotty. I didn't mean for it to sound that way.

    Unless you are dealing with precious metals and buying/selling on a regular basis, you probably wouldn't know that precious metals are measured by the troy ounce, and not avoirdupois ounce. There are 14 troy ounces to a lb, and 16 avoirdupois ounces. It makes it confusing when buying and selling gold bearing material. There are some people who are unscrupulous and will weigh your material based on whatever measurement allows them to steal from you. If you have ever talked with a gold buyer in a mall, they usually measure by penny weight for this exact same reason. Penny weight is not a normal measurement people would run into. It's not even the way most legit precious metal buyer/sellers deal with. It's just another way of leading you to believe you are getting a better deal that you are.

    Anyway, I apologize Bear, for the way my answer sounded, that's not how I intended it.

    Scott

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    frankly, the posts on this thread have been a bit too long winded for me to care much about reading anyway, and have bounced around like an avoirdupois rubber ball. Funny thing though, that a post I made on it about taking things you read with a grain of salt, was deleted
    Last edited by Bear; 01-05-2013 at 10:10 PM.

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    See talk of troy pounds but from what I see in these posts unless I have a ton of CPU's I'm not going to see even ounces which I think is partly incorrect when I have CPU like IBM 686. None are newer then 1995 and wished I would of took screenshot.because I can't find it but saw printout claiming 1 gram of gold used to make the very CPU I had in my hand as well as 8 others. Now I realize that just because 1 gram was used to make it,this does not mean I will get that entire amount when I refine it but was hopping for more accurate results and not ones mixed with extreme low amounts showing low average downplaying refining bro give better sales to refiners.I sold some mother boards which I was told were mid grade and received 7 dollars a pound.not worth selling.if its not worth processing my self that means its all just junk.I don't buy it


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