Results 1 to 19 of 19

Enough is Enough With the Local Scrap Yards!

| A Day in the Life of a Scrapper
  1. #1
    406Refining started this thread.
    406Refining's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Billings, MT
    Posts
    117
    Thanks
    213
    Thanked 164 Times in 66 Posts

    Enough is Enough With the Local Scrap Yards!

    Hey everyone, I hope your weekend was better than mine. I decided to take my scrap wire into the only recycle center in town with an on site granulator. Being that they have a granulator I was fully expecting them to have the best prices in town. After all, they are the end user other than a refiner. To my utter and complete surprise my 250 pounds of #2 insulated wire was downgraded to low grade wire. Instead of getting the expected $0.40/lb that the other yards were paying I got a measly $0.15/lb. By the time I realized the price it was too late. Needless to say I will officially be beginning the process of designing and building my own wire granulator out of peer and utter spite and because I can. When the project is done I will be starting to buy wire at prices higher than every yard in the city. It just upsets me when the yard that has the equipment to process wire and claims to have "the best nonferrous prices in the area" would utterly screw people over on their wire. * end rant


  2. The Following 4 Users say Thank You for This Post by 406Refining:



  3. #2
    DiamondN's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    817
    Thanks
    1,555
    Thanked 342 Times in 217 Posts
    Sounds like a good plan...Don't forget to post some pics of the 'project' when done...

  4. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by DiamondN:


  5. #3
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Tucson AZ
    Posts
    257
    Thanks
    215
    Thanked 416 Times in 173 Posts
    Wow I thought the price of .35 for 25 percent recovery I've been getting was bad.

  6. #4
    APA's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Western Pennsylvania
    Posts
    360
    Thanks
    393
    Thanked 291 Times in 153 Posts
    If I offered anyone here $.15 for copper wire, I would have to go into the witness protection system to live to see another day.

  7. The Following 4 Users say Thank You for This Post by APA:


  8. #5
    jimicrk's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2,260
    Thanks
    2,559
    Thanked 3,967 Times in 1,502 Posts
    I understand you being upset but why didn't you check prices before you unloaded and sold your wire?

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to jimicrk for This Post:


  10. #6
    hills's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    99
    Thanked 303 Times in 151 Posts
    Maybe go back and try to sort it out with the boss at the yard ?

    Was there any ribbon cable or plug ends mixed in with the load ?

    Just tryin' to figure out why they downgraded it to low grade. There must have been some reason ... even if it wasn't a good one.

  11. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by hills:


  12. #7
    RLS0812's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Clearfield County PA
    Posts
    843
    Thanks
    149
    Thanked 583 Times in 329 Posts
    I thought my yard was stingy - they pay $0.25 /lb for #3 wire.

    Wire granulators start at about $25,000 according to Google, and can do about 500# per hour

  13. #8
    jimicrk's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2,260
    Thanks
    2,559
    Thanked 3,967 Times in 1,502 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by hills View Post
    Maybe go back and try to sort it out with the boss at the yard ?

    Was there any ribbon cable or plug ends mixed in with the load ?

    Just tryin' to figure out why they downgraded it to low grade. There must have been some reason ... even if it wasn't a good one.
    I think the reason is that they are still trying to make up for the money they spent on the granulator.

  14. #9
    hills's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    99
    Thanked 303 Times in 151 Posts
    Lol ... maybe 406 should just bide his time.

    They won't be in business for very long if that's their strategy for success.

    He might be able to pick up a granulator on the cheap.

  15. The Following 5 Users say Thank You for This Post by hills:


  16. #10
    greytruck's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Thornton, Illinois
    Posts
    1,386
    Thanks
    1,083
    Thanked 993 Times in 547 Posts
    Wow, those prices are bad..... I can still get .93/lb for #2 ins wire (60% recovery ) here. All tape, prongs, zip ties removed.

  17. #11
    EDC76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Steelton, PA
    Posts
    130
    Thanks
    202
    Thanked 144 Times in 63 Posts
    That's a total rip off.

    Even low grade is $0.50/lb here.

  18. #12
    andyheim's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Feb 2015
    Location
    North Jersey
    Posts
    76
    Thanks
    79
    Thanked 50 Times in 27 Posts
    My thought is more people need to raise hell with this otherwise it wont stop. Happened to me many years ago before I was on this forum, probably cost me $50. Go back and at least see what the guy says.

  19. #13
    jimicrk's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2,260
    Thanks
    2,559
    Thanked 3,967 Times in 1,502 Posts
    Good luck with going to any yard and "raising hell" about prices.

  20. #14
    andyheim's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Feb 2015
    Location
    North Jersey
    Posts
    76
    Thanks
    79
    Thanked 50 Times in 27 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jimicrk View Post
    Good luck with going to any yard and "raising hell" about prices.
    I meant about not getting the correct price for the material surrendered.

  21. #15
    Gravitar's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    1,074
    Thanks
    1,242
    Thanked 1,373 Times in 511 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by andyheim View Post
    I meant about not getting the correct price for the material surrendered.
    Usually yards don't give customers the wrong price, the customer just doesn't understand what they actually have. Ask what they will buy your material is before you put it on the scale, then leave if you think its too low. Raising hell will get you nowhere at a yard, they will just ban you from the property, as they should.
    Made in China, Recycled in the Republic of Texas!

    "When the mind fails, brute force prevails" - CTSSolutions

  22. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by Gravitar:


  23. #16
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    92
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 83 Times in 41 Posts
    Here's the thing...granulated copper is **** near impossible to sell in less than a semiload, and even then the few odd lot buyers will hit you, especially if you don't have an assay report. Granulated copper, especially number two is hard to get right. "Dust" and "some plastic here or there" adds up to percentage points gone. Most granulated copper goes to a mill where they have requirements to make a certain product. Granulated copper is perhaps the hardest thing to sell, believe it or not.

    Why? Because granulating and getting both high percentage recovery and high percentage clean copper is an art and a science. They make it seem easy. It's not, especially if you have random employees doing it a few hours a week as needed. Especially #2 wire. Sure, the sales guys at granulator manufacturers will make it seem like a free ATM, that's not the case.

    Frankly, most places struggle with #2, and especially stuff below your average lamp wire. They may even have a crappy machine and not even know it...there's a difference in machinery.

    It's up to you the know what you have. Get a gram scale and start stripping and find out. Even then, some copper will be lost in processing. Most wire is granulated with a 20c per pound window of paying for machinery, expenses, and profit. That cost only sort of goes down with a bigger machine, but with labor needed to feed, not so much. You have to have semi loads a day to even do anything truly remarkable, and that's only a few yards across the country.

    I'd spend more time on learning recovery rates and educating your buyer if needed...accepting that "right" 'might be only halfway to reality. You can give them 35% wire and if they themselves can only recover 15%, guess what...most yards will make nearly the same selling wire as is versus a granulator margin anyway. Plenty of salespeople, so few buyers willing to do math.

  24. The Following 4 Users say Thank You for This Post by ozarksewaste:


  25. #17
    DakotaRog's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,510
    Thanks
    586
    Thanked 1,525 Times in 766 Posts
    I see that the thinner #2 insulated has gone up a nickel to 45 cents a pound since I went in last. The non-ferrous guy I deal with is not a "yard" in that he doesn't deal with steel (does non-magnetic SS). They have never had down graded any insulated wire I've brought in, although they really don't want any computer cable stuff. I wish 406 well in how to turn the tables on the low-ballers!

  26. #18
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    905
    Thanks
    558
    Thanked 1,277 Times in 390 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ozarksewaste View Post
    Here's the thing...granulated copper is **** near impossible to sell in less than a semiload, and even then the few odd lot buyers will hit you, especially if you don't have an assay report. Granulated copper, especially number two is hard to get right. "Dust" and "some plastic here or there" adds up to percentage points gone. Most granulated copper goes to a mill where they have requirements to make a certain product. Granulated copper is perhaps the hardest thing to sell, believe it or not.

    Why? Because granulating and getting both high percentage recovery and high percentage clean copper is an art and a science. They make it seem easy. It's not, especially if you have random employees doing it a few hours a week as needed. Especially #2 wire. Sure, the sales guys at granulator manufacturers will make it seem like a free ATM, that's not the case.

    Frankly, most places struggle with #2, and especially stuff below your average lamp wire. They may even have a crappy machine and not even know it...there's a difference in machinery.

    It's up to you the know what you have. Get a gram scale and start stripping and find out. Even then, some copper will be lost in processing. Most wire is granulated with a 20c per pound window of paying for machinery, expenses, and profit. That cost only sort of goes down with a bigger machine, but with labor needed to feed, not so much. You have to have semi loads a day to even do anything truly remarkable, and that's only a few yards across the country.

    I'd spend more time on learning recovery rates and educating your buyer if needed...accepting that "right" 'might be only halfway to reality. You can give them 35% wire and if they themselves can only recover 15%, guess what...most yards will make nearly the same selling wire as is versus a granulator margin anyway. Plenty of salespeople, so few buyers willing to do math.
    Great points! Don't make emotional equipment purchases... do your homework and be objective! Lots of great advice from folks on here about alternative approaches!
    Last edited by Ewasted; 12-25-2018 at 10:16 AM.
    Specializing in Maximum value for mixed precious metal printed circuit boards and electronics

    Check out our pricing and read some of our RAVING reviews: http://www.scrapmetalforum.com/scrap...tal-scrap.html
    QUESTIONS? Email us: info@CashForComputerScrap.com
    or Chat with us: www.CashForComputerScrap.com

  27. #19
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Jacksonville, NC
    Posts
    4,692
    Thanks
    14,403
    Thanked 5,525 Times in 2,546 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by 406Refining View Post
    Hey everyone, I hope your weekend was better than mine. I decided to take my scrap wire into the only recycle center in town with an on site granulator. Being that they have a granulator I was fully expecting them to have the best prices in town. After all, they are the end user other than a refiner. To my utter and complete surprise my 250 pounds of #2 insulated wire was downgraded to low grade wire. Instead of getting the expected $0.40/lb that the other yards were paying I got a measly $0.15/lb. By the time I realized the price it was too late. Needless to say I will officially be beginning the process of designing and building my own wire granulator out of peer and utter spite and because I can. When the project is done I will be starting to buy wire at prices higher than every yard in the city. It just upsets me when the yard that has the equipment to process wire and claims to have "the best nonferrous prices in the area" would utterly screw people over on their wire. * end rant
    I realize you are in MT, I am in coastal NC not the ends of the earth but close. I have found by building up larger loads of wire and electric motors has made driving the extra distance worth it. Perhaps you can find a similar situation to make more money. Best of luck and 73, Mike
    "Profit begins when you buy NOT when you sell." {quote passed down to me from a wise man}

    Now go beat the copper out of something, Miked


  28. Similar threads on the Scrap Metal Forum

    1. Replies: 5
      Last Post: 09-07-2017, 07:11 PM
    2. how far will scrap yards go to pick up good quality scrap?
      By ironlife in forum Scrap Metal Questions and Answers
      Replies: 15
      Last Post: 04-26-2014, 09:34 PM
    3. Scrap yards around here!
      By Focker in forum Off Topic Discussions
      Replies: 5
      Last Post: 08-07-2013, 11:28 AM
    4. It pays to call around to local yards
      By Immulmen in forum Scrap Metal Tips and Advice
      Replies: 8
      Last Post: 12-04-2012, 07:52 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

 
Browse the Most Recent Threads
On SMF In THIS CATEGORY.





OR

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

The Scrap Metal Forum

    The Scrap Metal Forum is the #1 scrap metal recycling community in the world. Here we talk about the scrap metal business, making money, where we connect with other scrappers, scrap yards and more.

SMF on Facebook and Twitter

Twitter Facebook