Results 1 to 17 of 17

Research Project in Cooperation with CERN

| A Day in the Life of a Scrapper
  1. #1
    DanielSchreiber started this thread.
    DanielSchreiber's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Wien
    Posts
    2
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts

    Question Research Project in Cooperation with CERN

    Dear Community!



    Let me briefly introduce myself: I am a student at Vienna University of Economics and Business and currently working on a research project to identify application fields for technologies and processes developed by CERN. Throughout the searching process, many ideas came up during interview sessions with actual users. One of the ideas arisen was to use a heat treatment installment of CERN to recycle metals.
    Now I am writing to this community to ask some details regarding scrap metal recycling. In our opinion, the technology could work and help in this field, but as a business student, we do not have the required knowledge to understand this technical process entirely.

    So my questions are:
    Which metals are possible to split through heat treatment into different stages?
    What temperatures need to be reached and for how long is required to hold them?

    Thank you very much for your help and willingness to help to support our project. If you have any questions or need further information regarding the technology feel free to contact me, I am happy and ready to answer every question arising.
    Yours,
    Daniel

  2. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by DanielSchreiber:



  3. #2
    hills's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    1,351
    Thanks
    797
    Thanked 1,276 Times in 721 Posts
    Hi Dan,

    First off ... Welcome to the forum !

    Please ... try to understand ... many of us don't have your intelligence or level of education.

    Could you dumb it down for us ?

    Wouldn't presume to speak for anyone else here but i barely have the IQ of a dog in comparison to world class talent.

    It's a matter of different worlds. It's hard to bridge the gap sometimes.

    Let me see if i can share my perspective:

    I understand CERN as being the big collider project in Europe. Fearful people have been concerned that it might blow up the world. ( They had similar concerns about the first A-bomb test.)

    Okay ... now ... i think you're talking about some new kind of metals refining and reclamation process. Waay kool ! Way to Go!

    I don't know if it's anything like what you're doing but i've always had a dream. It would be super kool to invent a process -or- series of processes that could take in municipal waste and break it down into it's atomic or molecular components then sort them accordingly.

    Just imagine ... that would be 100% recycling and might even be an exothermic process that could be used to create electricity.

    We've got similar process with municipal trash incineration. One of the things that's been proposed has been some kind of plasma process.

    If you could ever develop a field that would break molecular bonds as the waste is passed through ... you would be sitting on a goldmine !

    Alas ... i haven't been gifted with the intelligence to envision how such a thing could work.

    Maybe somebody else could ?

    We do seem to live in an age of miracles !
    Last edited by hills; 11-20-2018 at 11:26 AM.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to hills for This Post:


  5. #3
    mikeinreco's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TENNESSEE
    Posts
    4,972
    Thanks
    1,257
    Thanked 5,023 Times in 2,350 Posts
    Sounds like interesting experiment please post results

  6. The Following 3 Users say Thank You for This Post by mikeinreco:


  7. #4
    Patriot76's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Buffalo Commons
    Posts
    2,949
    Thanks
    10,589
    Thanked 7,220 Times in 2,256 Posts
    Welcome to the forum and I hope as was mentioned above that you will keep us updated the best you can through the process. The first thing that comes to mind is copy rights and patients because as Hills pointed out you are diving into uncharted territory that could have a big impact on earth as we know it. Presently metals are separated using both the melting point and their density. Going to the molecular level would allow for the transposing of trash into food, pollution into new chemical elements, etc. I know this is beyond what you are seeking so a couple of sites to get you started have been added below.

    https://www.steelforge.com/literatur...elting-ranges/

    https://www.simetric.co.uk/si_metals.htm
    Give back more to this world than we take.

  8. The Following 4 Users say Thank You for This Post by Patriot76:


  9. #5
    Otto's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    335
    Thanks
    494
    Thanked 322 Times in 166 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DanielSchreiber View Post
    Dear Community!

    Let me briefly introduce myself: I am a student at Vienna University of Economics and Business and currently working on a research project to identify application fields for technologies and processes developed by CERN. Throughout the searching process, many ideas came up during interview sessions with actual users. One of the ideas arisen was to use a heat treatment installment of CERN to recycle metals.
    Now I am writing to this community to ask some details regarding scrap metal recycling. In our opinion, the technology could work and help in this field, but as a business student, we do not have the required knowledge to understand this technical process entirely.

    So my questions are:
    Which metals are possible to split through heat treatment into different stages?
    What temperatures need to be reached and for how long is required to hold them?

    Thank you very much for your help and willingness to help to support our project. If you have any questions or need further information regarding the technology feel free to contact me, I am happy and ready to answer every question arising.
    Yours,
    Daniel
    Separating lead and aluminum from steel come to mind as potential applications. I would look at conventional furnaces currently employed to do this. I take it you're simply looking at using an alternate source of heat energy to accomplish the separation.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Otto for This Post:


  11. #6
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Apr 2018
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    268
    Thanks
    212
    Thanked 179 Times in 97 Posts
    Bill Gates of Microsoft fame has talked about a project that would cost billions and would allow toilet waste to be recycled into drinkable water and fertilizer. But what about the toilet paper? Stay tuned...

  12. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by recyclersteve:


  13. #7
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Apr 2018
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    268
    Thanks
    212
    Thanked 179 Times in 97 Posts
    For many many years people have talked about alchemy, trying to convert lead into gold. Since lead is 90 cents a pound and gold is over $1,200 per OUNCE, this process could lead to vast riches for someone who discovers it early on and keeps their mouth shut while selling their newfound gold holdings. The problem is that once the word got out about what happened, the price of gold would absolutely plummet.

    It would be a very complicated situation fraught with all kinds of dangers. For someone who discovered it, they could potentially be murdered. Why? There would be lots of very wealthy people who would lose lots of money.

    And, of course, there is always the bluffing game. Someone with enough money and the stones to do such a thing (perhaps a George Soros or wealthy Prince type) could tell the world that they have discovered it. They could go on TV amidst lots of fanfare to do such a thing. This could be the case, even though they haven't actually figured out anything. So they would be totally lying. Why would they do this? They could have a short position in gold, in other words betting it will go down.

    When it did plummet they could not only cover their short position with a tidy profit but also buy additional gold at the artificially cheap price. Of course, this strategy of going long gold could backfire in a big way if someone else really did figure out how to convert lead into gold.

    I predict that some day there will be a movie made about this subject.

  14. The Following 2 Users say Thank You for This Post by recyclersteve:


  15. #8
    mikeinreco's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TENNESSEE
    Posts
    4,972
    Thanks
    1,257
    Thanked 5,023 Times in 2,350 Posts
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_Hawk

    Well here is one movie I can remember about Da'Vinci's machine turning lead into gold

  16. The Following 3 Users say Thank You for This Post by mikeinreco:


  17. #9
    DanielSchreiber started this thread.
    DanielSchreiber's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Wien
    Posts
    2
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
    Thank you very much for the warm welcome

    also a big thank you for your input, it helped me a lot for further purposes!

    One further question which arises: Would it make sense to use the heat treatment oven for recycling purposes?
    As a big advantage, I would also mention here that in this oven are special heating zones which can be controlled separately and the temperate can be held for a long time with high accuracy (+/- 3 degree Celsius)

    Do you also know some companies which are currently dealing with such things, such as scrap metal recycling, browsing the web appeared not sufficient to me?

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to DanielSchreiber for This Post:


  19. #10
    hills's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    1,351
    Thanks
    797
    Thanked 1,276 Times in 721 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by recyclersteve View Post
    Bill Gates of Microsoft fame has talked about a project that would cost billions and would allow toilet waste to be recycled into drinkable water and fertilizer. But what about the toilet paper? Stay tuned...
    *** Sorry for the derail. ***

    This one's old tech. I've got it here at home via the septic system.

    1: Our wastewater leaves the home and enters the septic tank. The septic tank catches about 95 % of the solids and bio-degrades them.

    2: The effluent, AKA greywater, leaves the tank and goes into a leaching field where it's leached into the soil.

    3: The leachate gradually filters down through about 100' of granite bedrock into the underground aquifer.

    4: Our drilled well , about 100' deep taps into the aquifer and our submersible pump sends the water back to the house.

    A little freaky when you think about it ... but that's water cycle !

    Municipal wastewater systems work in a similar way. The solids are separated and then used to generate methane gas. The liquids are often dumped into the ocean. The sun hits the ocean, evaporates the water, and it's returned as rain & snow.

    Alternatively, the wastewater could be filtered, treated, and reused using something like the Millipore system.

    It might be better to filter seawater in places like the middle east where water is scarce. That's what they're currently doing.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to hills for This Post:


  21. #11
    hills's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    1,351
    Thanks
    797
    Thanked 1,276 Times in 721 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by recyclersteve View Post
    For many many years people have talked about alchemy, trying to convert lead into gold.
    *** sorry another derail ***

    Ancient Alchemy was really more of a spiritual metaphor. ( You have to read between the lines sometimes.)

    It was more about the process of conversion of the base human spirit (lead) into something worthy of entry into the kingdom of heaven (gold).

    Modern day Alchemy would be something far different. It would be about the mastery of manipulating matter and energy at will. See ... matter and energy are basically the same thing. ( E=Mc squared ) We already do that somewhat ... it's just that we haven't got it completely figured out just yet.

    And yeah ... it really would upset the apple cart. The wealth wouldn't be in precious metals but rather in the knowledge of how to manipulate matter at will .

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to hills for This Post:


  23. #12
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Apr 2018
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    268
    Thanks
    212
    Thanked 179 Times in 97 Posts
    Now if someone could truly figure out water desalination without great expense, that would be a nice discovery that could really help mankind.

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to recyclersteve for This Post:


  25. #13
    hills's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    1,351
    Thanks
    797
    Thanked 1,276 Times in 721 Posts
    Just an opinion: I think you have to look around your environment and see where your energy sources are.

    Take the middle east for instance: They have crude oil, natural gas from their oil wells, plenty of sunshine, and wind.

    In places like Venezuela & Iran ... there's an abundance of LNG & LPG. They're oil producing nations but don't have refining capacity but do have these different flammable gasses coming off the wellheads. A lot of their vehicles are built to run on LNG & LPG.

    Desalinization plants and power generating plants utilize the oil resource in some way.

    They could build a big solar still to purify their water. You know ... use solar energy to evaporate the seawater and then condense it back to liquid form. They could build a dual purpose solar furnace that produces electricity and purified water.

    Iran also has the basic materials to run a nuclear energy plant. They have to mine the radioactive material and then refine it ... but it's a doable plan. ( This one is controversial.)

    Point being: It can go all different kinds of ways. It all depends on what you have on hand to work with. It's a wide open field of opportunities.

  26. #14
    Sirscrapalot's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Mar 2012
    Location
    A sandbar off the atlantic..OBX,NC
    Posts
    6,123
    Thanks
    11,885
    Thanked 8,783 Times in 3,854 Posts
    collider

    Isn't that what you drain noodles with?



    Sirscrapalot - That's a joke.

  27. The Following 3 Users say Thank You for This Post by Sirscrapalot:


  28. #15
    hills's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor



    Member since
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    1,351
    Thanks
    797
    Thanked 1,276 Times in 721 Posts
    I just can't help buy feel that we might not be the best source of information for the OP. Most of us are scrappers and not refiners. There's always been a generally agreed upon prohibition of discussions that have to deal with refining because of the dangers involved.

    If we did set up a furnace to purify our metals into ingots ... our scrapyard probably wouldn't accept them.

    What he's asking about is generally outside the range of our direct experience unless we've worked in an industrial foundry before ?

  29. #16
    Sirscrapalot's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor


    Member since
    Mar 2012
    Location
    A sandbar off the atlantic..OBX,NC
    Posts
    6,123
    Thanks
    11,885
    Thanked 8,783 Times in 3,854 Posts
    All this talk is well over my pay grade.

    I just break **** for a living.

    I'm simple like that.

    Sirscrapalot - Turkey it's what's for dinner for the next week..

  30. #17
    Stargate1's Avatar
    SMF Badges of Honor

    Member since
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Loganville, GA
    Posts
    148
    Thanks
    24
    Thanked 116 Times in 59 Posts
    I concur with Sirscrapalot here. I don't know much about this subject at hand. I just break stuff so bad no one else can fix it. LOL


  31. Similar threads on the Scrap Metal Forum

    1. Sometimes.... cooperation must be DEMANDED, not REQUESTED.
      By auminer in forum A Day in the Life of a Scrapper
      Replies: 11
      Last Post: 02-05-2018, 08:16 AM
    2. Research into Pentium Pro and here is what I come up with
      By jthetravelingguy in forum Computer Recycling
      Replies: 10
      Last Post: 02-22-2014, 04:57 PM
    3. Some help with research?
      By Mick in forum General Electronics Recycling
      Replies: 1
      Last Post: 10-19-2012, 04:27 PM
    4. help with market research
      By High Voltage Processing in forum General - Let's talk business
      Replies: 20
      Last Post: 10-03-2012, 09:22 PM
    5. It really does pay to research before scrapping
      By IAscrapper in forum General Electronics Recycling
      Replies: 14
      Last Post: 05-14-2012, 10:29 AM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

 
Browse the Most Recent Threads
On SMF In THIS CATEGORY.





OR

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

The Scrap Metal Forum

    The Scrap Metal Forum is the #1 scrap metal recycling community in the world. Here we talk about the scrap metal business, making money, where we connect with other scrappers, scrap yards and more.

SMF on Facebook and Twitter

Twitter Facebook