Freon Recovery at Scrap Yards. Do they actually recover it?

**520** · 06-21-2018, 01:45 PM

I have been questioning whether or not scrap yards actually evac Freon. I have taken refrigerators/freezers to 4 different yards in town and all of them have me drop them strait on the shred pile. I have seen other units on the shred piles and it doesn't seem like they make any effort to recover the Freon. I have also picked up refrigerators with the compressors removed and the yards had nothing to say about whether or not the Freon was recovered by someone who is certified to recover Freon.

I am now wondering if I should just say screw it and start disassembling this big stack of AC window units myself to maximize my profit? Or haul them in intact and let the scrap yard break them down probably releasing the Freon same as I would.

Of course if I ask the yard if they recover the Freon they are going to lie and say yes they do recover it. But when I see refrigerators go strait on the shred pile how do I know they treat AC units differently?

**hobo finds** · 06-21-2018, 02:39 PM

Yep after I turned one in a fridge intact, I told them hoping it would/could be a better price and then they crushed it and tossed it in the shred pile no better price.... I can not say it is good to break them down and let out the Freon... but it is getting released at the yard anyway... so believe it or not every fridge or ac unit I find or get somehow all the Freon was out before I took it.... must have small leak somewhere!

**RagnBone** · 06-22-2018, 12:04 AM

A lot of people here would tell you to get certified to handle the freon and buy the equipment and tanks etc., but I'm not going to do that because I know it's generally not worth going to the time and expense to do that for your average--or even above average scrapper. That said, you have a place to get rid of them that does in fact give you money for them, even if it's not quite as much as you would get breaking them down illegally yourself. Operative word: illegally. And what they're doing is illegal as well, but by doing what you're doing - doing it the ethical way - ensures that your hands are clean even if it does feel pointless and like your missing out on some extra money.

It's the easiest thing in the world to rationalize bad behavior to bring in more money. Soul-less corporations do it all day every day, and twice on Monday. And whether global warming is real or not doesn't make what you're proposing any less illegal.

Fact of the matter is: you're already missing out on lots of money. It almost boggles the mind how much money your average street scrapper passes up in potential profit. But what are you going to become an expert at everything? That's why you have people that specialize and whole branches off the main scrap metal industry have sprung up for each of these specialty niches.

If you want to specialize in one kind of scrap go ahead, but I've never understood why so many "street guys" want to spend countless hours breaking stuff down in the scrap game. Sledge a motor off something if it takes a couple extra minutes sure, or cut the copper wires, etc. but don't you know as scrappers we're only keeping something like 20% of scrap metal that is thrown out every year out of the landfills? Why would you spend extra time that could be spent finding more stuff and making more contacts just to scrap out a fridge and make a whole 4 extra dollars and break the law in the process.

**KzScrapper** · 06-22-2018, 06:05 AM

I have taken the time to get the Universal Certification for handling of refrigerants due to being in the HVAC biz and can't purchase or handle refrigerants without it. Please know that the free Cert offered online covers a small amount of equipment and if you get into anything other then residential refrigerators, you are likely not covered.

The way my yard works is in the small print when you sign for payment, that anything that may have contained refrigerant has been evacuated. That way there is a paper trail that can lead back the seller (you) if the EPA happens to become involved.

If you don't have proper certification, all it takes is you pissing off one person who thinks something is fishy or knows about rewards being in the thousands for turning someone in that is discharging refrigerants into the atmosphere...and the fines to you can be in the tens of thousands.

As for selling refrigerants...that can be a lot tougher for most than it seems. The way it works for most of us in the HVAC biz is we turn it in for credit towards the purchase of virgin refrigerant for a savings of about 50%. The companies that recycle refrigerant are very picky about what you turn in as the different types can't be mixed at all and if they are YOU have to pay.

**greytruck** · 06-22-2018, 12:09 PM

Both the yards i frequent recover the refrigerant. They have huge yellow and gray tanks back there. One yard would drain your a/c while you unloaded your truck and let you have it back to break it down. They no longer do that, they just keep them for their self.

One day someone saw all their fridges( not far from the shred pile ) and went over there and started ripping the lines out. clouds of gas everyware. The yard guys came running over there and parked the front end loader in front of his truck so he couldnt leave. I dont know what happened cause i was done and left.

**Breakage** · 06-22-2018, 03:49 PM

I've been a little concerned about fridge recovery and its oversight. I'm less worried about greenhouse emissions, though. The CFC content of modern refrigerants is low, maybe not enough to totally save the ozone but still, it's not what it was so many years ago. Also, given that most of the damage reported comes from industry, automobiles, and bovine methane, I feel like penalizing scrappers for wanting to keep A/C's out of landfills is just beating the dog to scare the lion. Not a cool thing to do.

But it's the SEMBLANCE of legality which I think will cause problems. Ten years ago, meth users and wilderness kooks were cutting live lengths of high-tension wire for copper and making off with million-dollar bronze statues and the yards said nothing. A few "saw something, said something" but most of them were greedy and erred on the side of overhead. I don't fault anyone for wanting to stay in business but the result was yet more regulation of scrapping. Every time the regs go up to account for a rash of illegal activity, small yards suffer and independent scrappers lose out on value, while the biggest processors just pay the fines or tighten up operations in some big PR push mostly structured to keep the EPA from asking questions. If our yards now don't toe the line, even with the current dock of feds looking to shred the Clean Air/Water Acts and blunt climate change initiatives, some of them will get caught stuffing their pockets on the current steel price surge while failing to observe EPA 608 measures and once again, government will probably get involved. in working with the public, it's hard enough for a citizen to handle their white goods and reefer units without feeling like they are letting "crazy metal guys" drive off with their stuff to bash open compressors with a hammer. BTW, on last read, the liability on discharge seemed to include not only the person or persons responsible for the illegal discharge but also anyone who at any point could have refused to remit a refrigerant unit unto an uncertified party. That could even include a small-time scrapper who sends undischarged units to a yard who illegally evacs the contents. I may have misunderstood or it may have changed but I am not interested in being the one to test the letter of that law. And this all assumes we don't get a bunch of discharge-related injuries to push regulation as a result of civil action.

My point is that there are enough hazards in this business without inviting trouble by enabling criminal behavior on anyone's part.

**ScrapmanIndustries** · 06-23-2018, 05:13 PM

I've been to about 20 different yards so far and have seen 0 of them recover freon. Right now theres about 10 different loads of baled up air conditioners waiting to go through the shredder. gaurenteed the majority of them were not evac'ed properly. I also cut up the compressors that come in and only find about one or two units in every 1000lbs has been completely emptied. I have seen hotel maintenance guys evac fridges once though. Me and a few others I know have the 608 cert. the majority of the people I talk to that are not HVAC have no idea what that even means.

**KzScrapper** · 06-24-2018, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by ScrapmanIndustries

Me and a few others I know have the 608 cert.

Which type...there are three or Universal?

**Patriot76** · 06-24-2018, 09:12 AM

https://www.democraticunderground.co...ss=389x8685166

**hobo finds** · 06-24-2018, 10:41 AM

Arizona's response to Freon laws here Environment | Arizona's Freon Use Act of 1995

Comparison: State vs. Federal

• Rules. The federal rules for the management of chlorofluorocarbon (CFC), hydrochlorofluorocarbons, and other ozone depleting substances are effective in Arizona, although the state has not incorporated the rules into its own regulations. There are no state regulations pertaining to the management of ozone depleting substances.

• Administration and enforcement. EPA administers and enforces the CFC management requirements in Arizona.

So yes Federal Law trumps State Laws. As stated you should not release the CFC's

**ScrapmanIndustries** · 06-24-2018, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by KzScrapper

Which type...there are three or Universal?

The one for anything under 5 lbs. I believe. I don't come into contact with anything containing more freon than that anyway so I didn't really feel like getting anything better than that at the moment. I only ran into roof top units one time. I found them in a dumpster on ft. hood and they were already evac'ed. Every central unit I get has already been evac'ed or stripped down to nothing except the steel and compressor. If my luck changes I'll get the better certs.

**SKWrapper** · 06-26-2018, 11:41 AM

OK so yesterday, while on the scale... someone asked me (yard person) did you cut the refrigerant line on that fridge? I didn't really answer I just looked confused - then he told me to cut the coil before I drop it in the yard.

**miked** · 06-26-2018, 11:56 AM

Have you taken the study guide that is offered on the forum? In your heart you know the yard person was telling you to do something that is illegal so the yard can't be held responsible for properly removing the refrigerant. I don't suggest you try educating the scrap yard.

Perhaps get the study guide here and get licensed then expand your business by recycling refrigerant. Other possibilities will present themselves with the experience you will gain along with the license. 73, Mike

**SKWrapper** · 06-26-2018, 12:21 PM

Trust me I know... that'w why I looked confused and didn't say anything.

**Breakage** · 06-26-2018, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by SKWrapper

OK so yesterday, while on the scale... someone asked me (yard person) did you cut the refrigerant line on that fridge? I didn't really answer I just looked confused - then he told me to cut the coil before I drop it in the yard.

I think that's the easiest $10K anyone ever made. You should thank him.

**SKWrapper** · 07-16-2018, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Breakage

I think that's the easiest $10K anyone ever made. You should thank him.

...i don't get it. I could use $10k tho...

**mthomasdev** · 07-16-2018, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by SKWrapper

...i don't get it. I could use $10k tho...

Read the Section 608 laws. Fines and potential rewards for reporting.

**JJinLV** · 07-16-2018, 11:09 PM

At two different local yards I see/hear/smell folks doing it on site. One of them supposedly recovers freon too but have never seen it myself. The first time I brought fridges in tho they asked if I wanted to have them discharged so I could scrap the rest (my neighbor is an ac guy and had already done it) so apparently it does happen but not enough. And not at the other yard at all.

**SKWrapper** · 07-17-2018, 02:26 PM

It's for sure not done at the yard I go to. That's some reward and some fine!!

**520** · 07-18-2018, 01:32 PM

Well I just read the fine print on my receipt. It says that I have agreed to remove all refrigerants before bringing the units to the scrap yard. But then when I look on the scrap yards website they clearly state that they accept appliances with refrigerant and that they evac the refrigerant themselves.

This whole time I thought that I was signing something stating I was the owner and have the legal right to sell my material. I had no idea I was ALSO agreeing to have appliances evacuated of refrigerant. I had just been going off their website.

Freon Recovery at Scrap Yards. Do they actually recover it?

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