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Deduction for "trash"

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    diesel1 started this thread.
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    Deduction for "trash"

    I'm looking at bidding on some city buses for scrap. My regular yard guy always complains about the trash (plastic seats, wood floor, etc.) but he will generally pay a bit less than whatever current price is for car bodies. I talked to the rep for a bigger yard that has a large shredder, thinking they might pay a bit more because they can process and separate the various metals, trash, etc. more efficiently. The rep told me that they would deduct weight for the tires (no problem, that's business as usual) AND 30% for trash. So; on a 20K + bus, they would pay shred price on only about 15K.



    I need to have another conversation with the rep but I'm confused as to why they will pay shred rate on the full weight of "dirty" sheet and car bodies, knowing that there is about 30% (the rep's statement) trash in that material but they want to deduct the 30% on buses.


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    Since scrap yards differ as much as scrappers, this response is based on my local yards. Car bodies are crushed here and trucked to other facilities for processing. Our prices reflect the average garbage found in a vehicle. Our crushers cannot handle busses so they must be sheared like other machinery.

    The 30% figure is very high (seats, glass, and vinyl equals almost one-third of the weight of frame, motor, axles, and body?) This is negotiable and based on someone that will only bring in one bus. My standard strategy in working with a new individual or yard is to negotiate up front a tier system. First bus 30% deduction, second bus 25% deduction, third bus 20% deduction, all additional busses at 18% deduction. They can still earn a profit this way and you improve your margin through volume.
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    Buses have a larger % of glass,seats, etc. A regular car has a higher % of aluminum, copper, motor block (diesel motor blocks are worth less). So some yards may deduct for a bus vs. a normal car. Also I saw at the scrap yard I go to, a $300 catalytic converter that someone left on (Honda Accord). Old buses have worthless cats so there is another factor.

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    Just another step in the direction of a lower tier pricing than sheet iron area.
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    i wouldnt call it worthless, depends on what engine it had. MANY buses especially city buses were repowered after the emissions laws went into effect (2007). A city bus turning up at the scrap yard today would almost certainly have precat and dpf. This allowed the cities to receive green grants from the obama administration without buying new 350k buses.
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    There is a lot of trash in city busses compared to school buses. but I find it hard to believe that theres 30% weight thats non metal. Maybe try a smaller shredder yard. the big guys usually just read off a paper and can't differ from that with out getting the boss involved. somewhat smaller shredder guys can actually negotiate. Plus the big guys generally only want to deal with you if you got a semi or two coming in daily.

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    After rereading your post if the local guy you deal with is saying theres wooden floors thats probably where the 30% weight comes from. I know I did a small office trailer one time and did recovery on it, most of the weight came from the flooring. Metal$ vs. Garbage$ I was breaking even. So I charged the guy to do that. but that was only a trailer. not a engine drive full framed bus.

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    2007 and newer Diesel engines will likely have a valuable dpf catalytic converter system. I highly doubt that an auction of a bus 2007 and newer will 1. Be auctioned off in the first place and 2. If it was 2007 or newer, it would go for way more than scrap.
    Quote Originally Posted by armygreywolf View Post
    i wouldnt call it worthless, depends on what engine it had. MANY buses especially city buses were repowered after the emissions laws went into effect (2007). A city bus turning up at the scrap yard today would almost certainly have precat and dpf. This allowed the cities to receive green grants from the obama administration without buying new 350k buses.

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    diesel1 started this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot76 View Post
    Since scrap yards differ as much as scrappers, this response is based on my local yards. Car bodies are crushed here and trucked to other facilities for processing. Our prices reflect the average garbage found in a vehicle. Our crushers cannot handle busses so they must be sheared like other machinery.

    The 30% figure is very high (seats, glass, and vinyl equals almost one-third of the weight of frame, motor, axles, and body?) This is negotiable and based on someone that will only bring in one bus. My standard strategy in working with a new individual or yard is to negotiate up front a tier system. First bus 30% deduction, second bus 25% deduction, third bus 20% deduction, all additional busses at 18% deduction. They can still earn a profit this way and you improve your margin through volume.
    I appreciate the input from other members. A puzzling factor in the bus biz is that there is a local scrap yard that has bought batches of these buses in the past and had them flat-bedded 90 miles to a mega-mill processor in Chicago. I talked to the towing company; who told me that the towing, same as they charge the other guy, would be $500 per bus. The people I deal with cannot figure out how a guy can pay over $100/ton for the buses, plus a $500 tow and still make money. I'm thinking that the processor in Chicago has a better handle on actual yield from buses, can process them efficiently and thus pay more. And they may be paying more based on the total volume that the yard sends in, versus a one-shot guy like me.

    My real confusion though is this: the scrap yards are paying "X$" for full weight on "dirty" scrap, whether it is general "sheet", car bodies, appliances, aluminum breakage, etc., with the trash factor figured in. I can understand deductions for tires, wood floors, etc.. For instance: I took in an aluminum semi trailer with wood floor and steel frame. The yard paid breakage rate minus tires and 1000# for the wood floor, which seemed very fair on a 12K# trailer. But that was only about 10% of the total weight. So; 30% on buses seems way unreasonable. I have 1 more processor to talk to before I decide whether to proceed.
    Last edited by diesel1; 05-26-2018 at 10:12 AM.

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