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Another auction find - International 4200

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  1. #1
    IdahoScrapper started this thread.
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    Another auction find - International 4200

    Bought this a few weeks ago. They were taking sealed bids and I had a few bucks in my pocket. I offered $550 not expecting to win. I did. Total was $612.15. Auction house has changed how payments and invoices are paid and dispatched, but I finally got through all the hoops and went to grab it today.

    Actually I tried yesterday, but I got there and my mount plate wouldn’t work. Up until now it's been a good setup. I've towed around 10 vehicles with it, but this one is largest by far. All it is is a piece of large C channel with a receiver tube welded to it, that I put a 2” stinger in. Then I use 2 truck straps to fasten it to the bumper. Left in defeat and went home to make the plate larger.

    Tow bar is a 2” receiver tube, pinned to accept a coupler on both ends.

    I showed up and of course the battery is dead. Which apparently it has to be on/running to put it into neutral? Pressing brake didn’t get it out of park. Who knows. I am not familiar with these trucks. But I knew I would be dropping the drive shaft as it was sold as a non runner. Broke a ratchet, but I finally got the bolts out of the U joint and dropped the shaft.



    Hooked up , stuck the battery powered flashers on and made the 20 some mile trek on the back roads.

    It’s an ’05 International 4200 with a lift gate. Seller claims oil in coolant and bad fuel pump, so I was prepared to have to tow it. Now onward to the headache of removing the graphics per Frito Lay so they’ll release title. I started and it’s a huge pain, so I may see if they’ll let me get away with blacking out identifying marks with paint.

    Anyone work on these? Has 159k. What is the likely scenario I am dealing with? “Easy” fix? Total rebuild? Somewhere in the middle?
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  3. #2
    RLS0812's Avatar
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    I had a car run over 40,000 miles with oil in the coolant - it died a horrible death when it threw a rod out the block.
    The engine probably needs rebuilt with all new gaskets and seals ( not cheap on that truck ) . May have damaged pistons and related parts from the leak.

    The "van" and lift gate are worth about $3,800 ( if the gate works ), cab is worth about $4,400, transmission about $1,200, rear axle around $800 ( LINK )

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    Congratulations. I assume it is a diesel and if so, how many gears? Great deal for the money. Running the chain through a pipe serves two purposes, one to keep it from whip lashing into the back of the two vehicle and allows more control.
    Last edited by Patriot76; 03-09-2017 at 10:53 PM.
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  7. #4
    IdahoScrapper started this thread.
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    It is diesel, VT365. According to wiki it's the same engine used in Ford. The "tow" truck has the 6.0. I like it so far.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navistar_VT_engine

    Unsure on gears. I am guessing it's 5 speed.

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    If that's an automatic, it's an Allison and would have 5 or 6 speeds depending on year.

    As far as the engine issue, I have nothing positive to say about the Navistar V8's made after the 7.3 so I'll leave it at that.

  10. #6
    IdahoScrapper started this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDC76 View Post
    If that's an automatic, it's an Allison and would have 5 or 6 speeds depending on year.

    As far as the engine issue, I have nothing positive to say about the Navistar V8's made after the 7.3 so I'll leave it at that.
    It's automatic.

    I wish it had the 7.3!

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    IdahoScrapper started this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RLS0812 View Post
    I had a car run over 40,000 miles with oil in the coolant - it died a horrible death when it threw a rod out the block.
    The engine probably needs rebuilt with all new gaskets and seals ( not cheap on that truck ) . May have damaged pistons and related parts from the leak.

    The "van" and lift gate are worth about $3,800 ( if the gate works ), cab is worth about $4,400, transmission about $1,200, rear axle around $800 ( LINK )
    Thanks for the link. I wonder if they're really getting those prices. If so, parting out may be an avenue I should look at.

    Gate doesn't work. Battery is charged. I will tinker on it some more today and see what's going on.

    It has 2 tires that look new. The rest are decent. Probably some value there.

    I am pondering keeping the box for storage and sell/scrap the rest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoScrapper View Post

    Gate doesn't work. Battery is charged. I will tinker on it some more today and see what's going on.
    There may be a cutoff switch in the cab for it, or it may only work when it sees 13+ volts (the engine is running).

  13. #9
    IdahoScrapper started this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDC76 View Post
    There may be a cutoff switch in the cab for it, or it may only work when it sees 13+ volts (the engine is running).
    There's a switch on the side of the pump box. Flipping it either way doesn't do anything. Tester shows no power on either terminal. I do have power at the pump solenoids though. Jumper wire got the lift going.

    Truck started after a bit. Sounded awful so I shut it down. Sounded almost like a steering pump whine. Anyone have thoughts on that?

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    Wow! Nice score. It would seem that you have cash in the bank. Where did you find it? Best of luck.

  16. #11
    IdahoScrapper started this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot76 View Post
    Congratulations. I assume it is a diesel and if so, how many gears? Great deal for the money. Running the chain through a pipe serves two purposes, one to keep it from whip lashing into the back of the two vehicle and allows more control.
    It's a a receiver tube with 2" couplers on both ends. It's stupid heavy but it works. Great control.

    Here's a better look.

    When I needed to tow this I burned a hole in the bucket and put a ball on there.
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  18. #12
    IdahoScrapper started this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by t00nces2 View Post
    Wow! Nice score. It would seem that you have cash in the bank. Where did you find it? Best of luck.


    Surplus Equipment Auctions | GoIndustry DoveBid

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    Your going to find probably only one thing wrong with it, the oil cooler. On a Ford it is a costly and extensive fix but on a motor that's out in the open to work on it's about 4 hours of your time, 400 bucks in gaskets and a cooler. At a shop it's about a 1200 dollar job. The good thing is, most of the time the engine is fine but the cooling system is completely contaminated with oil. It will take gallons of purple power, a hose and a full day of patience to flush the system out enough to make it reliable for you.

    Seriously though, it's an easy fix.

    I forgot to add how to confirm my suspicion.

    You need to pull the oil pan drain plug first, if coolant or mud comes out before oil for more than a second or so, stop there, the engine is scrap. Next, open up the drain cock for the radiator, if it's muddy or the color of butterscotch and the consistency of a milkshake, there you go, oil cooler is the problem.

    The engine itself in a detuned version (that is the VT365) is pretty much forever lasting, the head gasket and egr problems present in the fords never really are problems for internationals, although anything is possible.

    IF the engine is scrap, you might as well do a 12 valve cummins repower if you plan to keep it.
    Last edited by armygreywolf; 03-10-2017 at 11:53 PM.
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    Beautiful. naturally im wondering where are these auctions and how do i find them in my arear

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    Wait... this IS a scrapping website ain't it??? LOL You found a winner no matter what you do with it. Good for you. Keep the reports coming!!!

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  24. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoScrapper View Post
    It is diesel, VT365. According to wiki it's the same engine used in Ford. The "tow" truck has the 6.0. I like it so far.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navistar_VT_engine

    Unsure on gears. I am guessing it's 5 speed.
    Oil cooler attached to the side of the engine block, infamous for leaking coolant into the oil.

    Nice truck.

    Could be this puppy also.

    Last edited by alloy2; 03-18-2017 at 04:41 PM.

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  26. #17
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    Not attached to the side, it's in the valley under and behind the turbo. On a 4200 you can get to it without removing turbo and manifolds, on the powerstroke everything has to come out. Some trucks have already had the updated oil cooler which bypasses the cooler in the valley and is usually a air tank looking device attached to or next to the frame rail with four couplers on it.

  27. #18
    IdahoScrapper started this thread.
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    I did the checks like armygreywolf advised. Oil at drain is clean. Radiator is empty/oily.

    I then decided to let a shop take over. I had them diagnose it. Came back as bad fuel pump and faulty/bad FICM. He wants $2,500 to 3k for the FICM. With total being around $5,000. I declined. Going to do some more research on what’s involved. I see on the diesel forums a few shops that repair them for $200 to $500.

    I asked if he thought cooler was blown. He didn't investigate any further after finding the FICM issue. I am fairly confident this shop actually knows what it is talking about, but I can't afford to have them repair it.

    I am confused on why it started at one point and now it won’t.

    Oh well. Gives me something to tinker on.

  28. #19
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    Send me the ficm, I can repair it if it's indeed bad. Don't worry about paying me right away either. If the ficm is bad I will know because test voltage will be below 40v when powered. The step up board is only 130 bucks and I can get the firmware updated by international (I still have all the software for a long time ago). The control board is almost never a failure point. I'd be willing to bet you blew the step up board when you tried to get it going. (not your fault, but now you know its frowned upon to mess with the batteries, use jump boxes and jumper cables). If the fuel pump is bad (Impossible to know until you replace the ficm) it's actually a cheap part.

    In the meantime you can get the oil cooler replaced, like I said, its cheaper than you think and easy to replace.
    Last edited by armygreywolf; 03-24-2017 at 08:26 PM.

  29. #20
    IdahoScrapper started this thread.
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    I may have you repair it. We'll see what FICMrepair.com says. They said they can repair it, but can't do anything with the programming? Does that mean it would be useless until someone programs it even though it was repaired?

    If you want to follow along with the conversation... https://www.facebook.com/FICMRepaird...90353540269927

    Undecided if I want to tackle the oil cooler myself. Haven't had any success in finding step by step instructions for this truck. Found a few for 6.0 pick ups. Will that be somewhat the same?

    Something else the shop said, he wouldn't bother with flushing the cooling system. How crucial is it that it be done? Logic tells me you don't want the 2 mixed, but I honestly don't know what it does to the system.

    Thank you for taking the time to teach me.
    Last edited by IdahoScrapper; 03-24-2017 at 10:41 PM.


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